Used Kamisori buying advice.

I posted a little while about http://www.japanese-razor.com/ excellent personal service. I ordered my razor 'bare' as it were. after a couple of months or so of use I decided I needed it to be wrapped. I contacted Tony at japanese razor and sent it to him for a quick touch up and a wrap. This he did using rafia and beeswax. It looks wonderful and very traditional, it's improved the ergonomics no end! Including postage back to me it cost about 2 pints in my local- and I'm talking bitter not creme de menthe :))

Just deal with him- he WILL look after you, a real gent!
 
It must be to do with getting out of bed at daft o'clock this morning to let the carpenter in - but I've been enabled! A Inoue Fujita shave-ready kamisori with blue string wrapped handle will shortly be on it's way to me! Will it shave anything like a Weber? I so love my Webers!

Which side goes against my skin, please? Flat or ground? I figure flat but best to know before I start experimenting.
 
Absolutely stunning reason to buy a kamisori.
I am incredibly impressed.

From what I read it is 'stamp side out'. So logo away from the face.
 
It must be to do with getting out of bed at daft o'clock this morning to let the carpenter in - but I've been enabled! A Inoue Fujita shave-ready kamisori with blue string wrapped handle will shortly be on it's way to me! Will it shave anything like a Weber? I so love my Webers!

Which side goes against my skin, please? Flat or ground? I figure flat but best to know before I start experimenting.

Good stuff, Bechet.

Which side to use is a strangely contentious issue, as I discovered myself by accident when I was accused of "trying to prove" something by shaving with just the one side. :)

Anyway, some people (including the FAQ of at least one online Kamisori supplier) say that traditionally, the side with the maker's stamp (the "Ura" side) should always face away from the skin, and the "humped" side (the "Omote") should always be against the skin. Others disagree (quite strongly, as it happens!) and say that both sides should be used.

I say see what's best for you. I tried a simulated "traditional" style Kamisori shave with a shavette and didn't have any problems but YMMV.
 
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Kamisori are used with one specific side against the face at all times. That side is the unstamped "Omote." The stamped side, which has a much more pronounced concave, is the "ura" and it is to be used away from the face.

The use of Kamisori is a tradition. It is the way it is. I can't answer you as to "why" or whatever, but if you look at the blade profile of a Kamisori, it's pretty obvious that the two sides are different, and thus the use is going to fit that profile. If the use was, as you would like, symmetrical, then the blade would be symmetrical.

This isn't a recommendation or advice, this is the way that they are used, much as when you drive you don't use your right foot on the gas and left on the break. It is what it is. Yes, it's difficult. But it certainly can be learned, if you want to learn it. I have learned it, and I know several other Westerners who have done. And of course, everyone I know in Japan who shaves with one does so.

Now, as to whether or not you can do it another way, well, that's the thing about the word "can." Of course you can shave any way you want. You can use your razors to slice garlic like Paulie in Goodfellas. But in that case, then you are forcing the tool to adapt to your skills, rather than adapting your skills to using the razor the way it is designed to be used. You are ignoring the hundreds of years of tradition and use that produced these razors.

In which case, I have to ask: Why have them and use them at all if not to experience that tradition? Western style folding razors, which are naturally designed to shave the way you seem to want to shave, are cheaper, more widely available, and in many ways easier to use.

I hope this answers your questions.


 
Aye - there's a difference between Japanese and Western grinds - and Japanese only shave one side (afaIk - I think Jamie said so.)

Some people say that even with the asymmetrical grind, both sides should be used.

(Not me by the way, I'm in "the Omote against the face" camp but not everyone agrees, like I said. It's an unlikely can of worms. :))

To see what I mean, see this thread (the fun starts after page 2, after post #33).

http://theshavingroom.co.uk/community/index.php?threads/first-straight-shave.35785/
 
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A word of warning they will destroy your hanging strop because they usually have a very sharp abrupt heel and toe especially the Iwasaki Kamisori so be warned, I have a long bench strop for stropping these, also a very difficult razor to hone correctly you should always tape the Omote if you have a new or one or if you have one in good order because you will quickly start to wear the Omote down then you start to quickly increase the size of the bevel and the razors geomerty is altered beyond all recognition.
 
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Now I don't want to get into any more arguments on this subject, but if using one side is traditional does anyone have any evidence - other than from western forums? Our good friend Mikael on this site suggested that the 'tradition' of just using the omote side may have applied just to barbers. That would certainly be easier when shaving someone else as you can move your position relative to the person being shaved.

However, trying to shave yourself using just the omote side requires a degree of contortion that I don't have - or shaving against the grain only in certain areas. I have a traditional kamisori and cannot work out how to shave against the grain i.e.upwards on the right hand side neck and face.

Jamie, do you use just the omote side when using a western kamisori?

Edit - and by western kamisori I mean traditional grind in western scales.
 
Rob I use both sides and I can't tell the difference but whether or not we can master the Art and technique required is another thing but they are made to be used oneside there's no doubt otherwise why make them asymmetrical? they made Samurai swords and many other cutting weapons instruments and knives with symmetrical grinds, but whenever they want a knife or a razor to cut at it's most proficent the always have a single bevel just like a sushii knife a guillotine even a Microtome razor which was made for slicing samples only as a single bevel still people use both sides.

http://www.secretsofsushi.com/sushi-and-sashimi-knives
 
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Now I don't want to get into any more arguments on this subject, but if using one side is traditional does anyone have any evidence - other than from western forums? Our good friend Mikael on this site suggested that the 'tradition' of just using the omote side may have applied just to barbers. That would certainly be easier when shaving someone else as you can move your position relative to the person being shaved.

However, trying to shave yourself using just the omote side requires a degree of contortion that I don't have - or shaving against the grain only in certain areas. I have a traditional kamisori and cannot work out how to shave against the grain i.e.upwards on the right hand side neck and face.

Jamie, do you use just the omote side when using a western kamisori?

Edit - and by western kamisori I mean traditional grind in western scales.


I have to agree,Rob, albeit only a few shaves in.

I never had a problem using either hand, with a traditional Western razor, but, apart from the physical demands of only using one side of the Kamisori, I seem to have a mental block when I try to do so.


Steve.
 
It's arrived! Thankfully - after I'd shaved today! Scary looking little bugger, eh? After a pain free stropping, I put it back in the box and put it somewhere safe. Do I have the balls to try it? No excuse not to really, binned a Kai from a Weber earlier so I need Oi vey! a new blade tomorrow - but a kamisori!!!? Oi vey!

Full marks to Tony at Japanese-razors.
 
It's arrived! Thankfully - after I'd shaved today! Scary looking little bugger, eh? After a pain free stropping, I put it back in the box and put it somewhere safe. Do I have the balls to try it? No excuse not to really, binned a Kai from a Weber earlier so I need Oi vey! a new blade tomorrow - but a kamisori!!!? Oi vey!

Full marks to Tony at Japanese-razors.


Which one did you go for, Carl?


Steve.
 
A £60 Inoue Fujita, which I figured would make a good starting point. If I were younger and still earning, I reckon I could chase kamisoris all the way into the hills and beyond - whether I can learn to shave with one or not. There is just something about them that grabs me - the tradition, the art and the utter craziness of them.
 
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