Six Nations - written in the stars?

Giving this playing base a bit more thought - we are well past the time when amateurs played for any country, therefore the pick list comes from the number of players who earn a professional living and are eligible. For England that's basically those who represent the 12 teams in the Premiership, but, of course not all of these are eligible. I don't have the statistics available, but I'm guessing maybe 30 to 40% of premiership players are not England qualified. So when you compare this to other countries' professional availability then the gulf in availability is nowhere near as wide as just the number of registered rugby players in each country.
 
UKRob said:
Before we move on perhaps Jamie would explain to me the difference between George North born in England - English Father/Welsh mother - perfectly entitled to play for Wales - and Dylan Hartley born in New Zealand to an English mother and who has played all his schoolboy and senior rugby in England - who is perfectly entitled to play for England.
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Rob George North Mother his Welsh his Father is English he moved back to Anglsey when he was a very young boy Welsh speaking north Walian, Educated at Ysgol Uwchradd Bodedern on Anglesey and later at Llandovery College in West Wales, he played as a junior for Llangefni, Pwllheli, Rhyl and Gogledd Cymru under-16s. Also went on to represent Wales to under 16 and 18 level there's no question of his pedigree, I don't have any issues with British born individuals with parents from English Welsh Scottish Northern Irish mixed marriages chosing any one of the home nations, Nigel Redman, Josh Lewsey, Martin Corey, Dewi Morris, and many other full English internationals have Welsh parents who if they had wanted could have played for Wales, I also have problems with northern Irish who consider themselves British playing for Ireland how does that work? do you have to give up your British passport if you play for Ireland because that one as always totally confused me are they British or are the Irish?
 
My last word on the subject of nationality etc. I think it was the Duke of Wellington who, on being called an Irishman (because he was born there), remarked that had he been born in a stable it would not have made him a horse.
 
pugh-the-special-one said:
....I also have problems with northern Irish who consider themselves British playing for Ireland how does that work? do you have to give up your British passport if you play for Ireland because that one as always totally confused me are they British or are the Irish?
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The simple answer is that the RFU / IRFU do not recognise the political boundary, there is one Ireland, full stop. It also explains why the Irish anthem is Ireland's Call, a song made up to keep all sides, despite political and religious persuasions happy to share.
 
So the RFU and IRFU don't recognise Ulster as being a part of Britian then? interesting so does that mean a Irish national can play for any of the other home nations if so chooses this is all getting a bit confusing for me.
 
pugh-the-special-one said:
So the RFU and IRFU don't recognise Ulster as being a part of Britian then? interesting so does that mean a Irish national can play for any of the other home nations if so chooses this is all getting a bit confusing for me.
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Good question, well presented. Dunno, I'd have thought the old grandfather rights / once had a stamp from that country when I was a childhood philatelist rules would kick in?!
 
Jamie - here's an excerpt from Wikipedia:

'The Irish rugby union team is one of many teams that draws its players from across the Island of Ireland and therefore can contain players from either Ireland or Northern Ireland. In the past this has led to issues surrounding certain flag and anthem usage. When Irish internationals were played alternately in Belfast and Dublin, the UK national anthem was played for matches in Belfast and the national anthem of Ireland "Amhrán na bhFiann" was played for matches in Dublin.[citation needed] No anthem was played at away games.

Since April 1995, a specifically composed anthem named "Ireland's Call" has been used exclusively by the Irish team at away games.'

Specifically the Unions in both south and north were unified - so in answer to your question, players born in Ireland cannot play for other home unions - unless they qualify under the parent/grandparent rules that apply to everyone else.
 
Thanks Mick and Rob, I'm slightly amazed that the northern Irish would even consider unifying with the republic because Ulster Rugby is so typical of the militant Prodestant even their kit bare the hated Red hand of Ulster insignia, you learn something everyday.
 
BTW. Not every county in Ulster is part of Northern Ireland. For example, Tommy Bowe is a Monaghan man. Monaghan is part of Ulster, and is also one of the 26 counties that make up the Republic. Donegal and Cavan, the same.
 
@jb74 - I noticed that Ireland now has a selection policy of having to play in Ireland - has this changed recently? I'm aware that Tommy Bowe played in Wales at the same time as representing Ireland.
 
UKRob said:
@jb74 - I noticed that Ireland now has a selection policy of having to play in Ireland - has this changed recently? I'm aware that Tommy Bowe played in Wales at the same time as representing Ireland.
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Don't think it came into effect until late 2013 and I'm sure he was back playing with Ulster at that stage.

Humm, that being said... Sexton was playing in France last year and playing for the national team at the same time.

*Edit* Here it is - it was a policy designed to promote the growth of talent within the country, it didn't prohibit the selection of Irish players playing overseas.

In December 2011, the IRFU announced a new policy, most of which takes effect with the 2013–14 season, that restricts the signing of overseas players to professional contracts. The policy was designed to encourage development of home-grown players. Leinster, Munster and Ulster combined will be limited to one player at each position who is not eligible for Ireland selection.
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I believe there is an 'informal' policy where home-based players will be given preference when it comes to national team selection, but you know that will go out the window when one of your best players heads to France for a couple of years.
 
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jb74 said:
Don't think it came into effect until late 2013 and I'm sure he was back playing with Ulster at that stage.

Humm, that being said... Sexton was playing in France last year and playing for the national team at the same time.

*Edit* Here it is - it was a policy designed to promote the growth of talent within the country, it didn't prohibit the selection of Irish players playing overseas.
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Reading the Wiki entry in relation to the current squad - it says that 'All squad members are contracted to play their club rugby in Ireland.' If you look at the 35 names in the squad - all are contracted to the Ireland teams.
 
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