I got prescribed Zyban (Bupropion) for some weeks to help with giving up. It's not an MAOI but it boosts dopamine levels so takes away cravings for the six? weeks you're allowed it. I was fine on it, though some say they get bad side effects like insomnia. Anyway well done Dr T, it's a rocky road in the first weeks but things do get better.
I going to try giving up smoking...Again
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Studies have shown that there is about .95 mg nicotine per cigarette, so the other minor alkaloids make up about .05 mg per cigarette. Assuming a person smokes a pack a day, it would be 1 mg consumed per day.
Not exactly a lot. Then again, we don't consider 18 mg a large amount either, but that amount or less of nicotine per day is enough to keep people smoking despite the known severe and potentially deadly health risks of smoking.
Edit: I found another study from this journal article on Nicotine Content of Domestic Cigarettes from the US National Library of Medicine and the National Institutes of Health. It claims the nicotine content in cigarettes varies from 6.17 to 12.65 mg per cigarette. My numbers above will need to be revised upwards considerably. This would mean that a person consumes between 6.17 to 12.65 mg of minor alkaloids (most of which are MAOI's) per pack, per day, and between 123 to 265 mg of nicotine per pack, per day.
Not exactly a lot. Then again, we don't consider 18 mg a large amount either, but that amount or less of nicotine per day is enough to keep people smoking despite the known severe and potentially deadly health risks of smoking.
Edit: I found another study from this journal article on Nicotine Content of Domestic Cigarettes from the US National Library of Medicine and the National Institutes of Health. It claims the nicotine content in cigarettes varies from 6.17 to 12.65 mg per cigarette. My numbers above will need to be revised upwards considerably. This would mean that a person consumes between 6.17 to 12.65 mg of minor alkaloids (most of which are MAOI's) per pack, per day, and between 123 to 265 mg of nicotine per pack, per day.
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I don't totally agree with this, not to cause a commotion but just personal opinion, as everyone does personal research /study. Dr Google can be a fibber.
Regarding e-cigs or what I like to call plastic cigarettes, will it be another several years till were force told of the subsequent dangers? One striking concern is the inhalation of Formaldehyde.
If I asked are you stopping sugar and the response was yes I'm using sweeteners you can appreciate the similarities that can be drawn.
Nicotine is present in a given concentration, do you have the original article outlining anti-depressant amid smoking cessation and its confirmed concentration amongst brand batch? It seems to me concentration levels would not be confirmed.
My reasoning would be considering precentage absorption (sublingual/transdermal) how the rate of delivery is affected by heat and batch production. How addiction can be separated from the nicotine addiction given no definite readings of either within an individual's blood stream. How the psychological aspect is defined between two psychological stimulants and finally the complexity and part unknown composition of a cigarette and how this alters chemical state. Throw in user's conditions, heat/moisture/age of cigarette(s); cannot be factorised to a absolve the two from each other IMO.
Not to knock e-cigs, but do you ever see them on prescription, or through smoking cessation via your Pharmacist/GP programs? Or even the health benefits portrayed over the counter/packaging No? Perhaps because the NHS after considering this as a cheaper option were not consolidated in their opinions, law suits are expensive. Where it is sold is a business, when asked we say it is not a good alternative to a cigarette.
Wow sorry this got ridiculously long especially for a Sunday
Dr. T sorry for the negative outlook but in reality congrats. The hardest part is starting the cycle to stop, then its breaking the cycle to never have to start to stop again. Whatever method is aiding this is useful in stopping cigarettes. Just don't let marketing sugar coat it.
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E-cigs have about an 80% success rate for keeping folks off of cigarettes. Smoking cessation pharmaceuticals have about a 15% success rate. 85% of people who quit smoking using a prescribed smoking cessation aid relapsed within a year. That's good for the pharmaceutical companies, and bad for the consumer. 20% of pharmaceutical income is from end of life medical care for smokers. Big Pharma is against vaping because it is killing their cash cow.
While it is true that vaping has not established a 'safe' for human consumption record, and there could indeed be long term health effects from vaping that we haven't discovered yet, consider the alternative. We know cigarettes will kill you.
The formaldehyde in e-cigs argument is spurious. It was based on bad research and has been thoroughly debunked. As a side note, and completely unrelated, were you aware that the human body naturally produces formaldehyde? It is essential for the production of some basic biological materials, such as certain amino acids. Amino acids are necessary for important life processes as they are the building blocks of proteins in the body.
While it is true that vaping has not established a 'safe' for human consumption record, and there could indeed be long term health effects from vaping that we haven't discovered yet, consider the alternative. We know cigarettes will kill you.
The formaldehyde in e-cigs argument is spurious. It was based on bad research and has been thoroughly debunked. As a side note, and completely unrelated, were you aware that the human body naturally produces formaldehyde? It is essential for the production of some basic biological materials, such as certain amino acids. Amino acids are necessary for important life processes as they are the building blocks of proteins in the body.
You mention an 80% success rate for keeping users off cigarettes. I go back to my original similie in that sweetners keep you off sugar but have their own health risks.
Pharmaceutics and Pharmacies are two different kettles of fish, an independent makes more more money by co-ercing continual sales of e-cigs than smoking cessation. Smoking cessation via your health professional is free for you. Pharmaceutic companies may make money of smoking cessation but the net cost to the NHS and hospital treatment is positively skewed (apparent in all NHS budgets concentrating on smoking related COPD since 2001) I'm no advocate for these records and stats to be honest. But I haven't seen any documentation that states e-cigs can prevent COPD death associated with smoking.
Formdehydes like bile and free radicals, are produced in the body, you are totally correct. However, our entire system is made to deal with these prohibiting damage. Again, when we increase the concentration environmentally, we are asking our system to work harder, which leads to a decrease in efficiency and finally a cause for concern. Take painkillers and the liver for example. Or some causes of Gout. If stopping smoking is to reduce risk, as mentioned above e-cigs are a mechanism but I wouldn't be drawn into positive marketing blurb.
The null hypothesis that cigarettes will kill you cannot yet be seperated from the ideal that e-cigs wont. It has not been proven. If it were the NHS would be on it rapidly including cigarette companies that have an established brand and like other major companies (Coca Cola and child labour comes to mind) will jump on the happy thoughts/public image band wagon. BAH HUMBUG
Just as an addition, you can't relapse with an e-cig as you haven't stopped the mechanism of smoking (hand to mouth) or all contents of a cigarette , its replacement therapy.
Pharmaceutics and Pharmacies are two different kettles of fish, an independent makes more more money by co-ercing continual sales of e-cigs than smoking cessation. Smoking cessation via your health professional is free for you. Pharmaceutic companies may make money of smoking cessation but the net cost to the NHS and hospital treatment is positively skewed (apparent in all NHS budgets concentrating on smoking related COPD since 2001) I'm no advocate for these records and stats to be honest. But I haven't seen any documentation that states e-cigs can prevent COPD death associated with smoking.
Formdehydes like bile and free radicals, are produced in the body, you are totally correct. However, our entire system is made to deal with these prohibiting damage. Again, when we increase the concentration environmentally, we are asking our system to work harder, which leads to a decrease in efficiency and finally a cause for concern. Take painkillers and the liver for example. Or some causes of Gout. If stopping smoking is to reduce risk, as mentioned above e-cigs are a mechanism but I wouldn't be drawn into positive marketing blurb.
The null hypothesis that cigarettes will kill you cannot yet be seperated from the ideal that e-cigs wont. It has not been proven. If it were the NHS would be on it rapidly including cigarette companies that have an established brand and like other major companies (Coca Cola and child labour comes to mind) will jump on the happy thoughts/public image band wagon. BAH HUMBUG
Just as an addition, you can't relapse with an e-cig as you haven't stopped the mechanism of smoking (hand to mouth) or all contents of a cigarette , its replacement therapy.
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What absolute rot.
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Considering the OP's health problems and his need to stop smoking I'd say this isn't the place for arguments about ecigs.
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Ah geez.
Here's the link to the debunking of formaldehyde in vapable e-cigs article.
http://www.ecigarette-research.com/web/index.php/2013-04-07-09-50-07/2015/191-form-nejm
and the continuation of that article here.
http://www.ecigarette-research.com/web/index.php/2013-04-07-09-50-07/2015/191-form-nejm
and the conclusion, here.
http://www.ecigarette-research.com/web/index.php/2013-04-07-09-50-07/2015/192-form-ver
The credentials of the author, here.
http://www.e-cigarette-summit.com/speaker/dr-konstantinos-farsalinos/
As for the human body producing formaldehyde, that information came from here:
http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/ScienceResearch/ucm349473.htm
Third paragraph down. I trust the American FDA is an acceptable source?
Edit: I'm done with the back and forth on here. I didn't join this forum to educate or change people's minds. I joined to share in the glorious ritual that is wet shaving. I am out of this thread.
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Apologies for this debate Dr. T if you need any advice/samples etc just PM and I'll sort it out for you.
Just wanted to provide a balanced view point, being in the field. Hopefully were adults that can make a judgement based on personal needs.
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Good on yer, Graeme!
Ahh again not to sound obtrusive but I thought before leaving the thread you would at least give us a chance to respond to your research, I have just read paragraph 1 of the first link and it states they have no idea what damage formaldehyde causes in the GI tract let alone upper GI.
Oh well I think your logic is flawed as education is an extension of opinion which is forum based, furthermore information readily available for each side would it not benefit a user to know all abojt the product that may help them? Or are we going down the route of if my opinion is challenged I'll just leave it?
Oh well I think your logic is flawed as education is an extension of opinion which is forum based, furthermore information readily available for each side would it not benefit a user to know all abojt the product that may help them? Or are we going down the route of if my opinion is challenged I'll just leave it?
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I don't totally agree with this, not to cause a commotion but just personal opinion, as everyone does personal research /study. Dr Google can be a fibber.
Regarding e-cigs or what I like to call plastic cigarettes, will it be another several years till were force told of the subsequent dangers? One striking concern is the inhalation of Formaldehyde.
If I asked are you stopping sugar and the response was yes I'm using sweeteners you can appreciate the similarities that can be drawn.
Nicotine is present in a given concentration, do you have the original article outlining anti-depressant amid smoking cessation and its confirmed concentration amongst brand batch? It seems to me concentration levels would not be confirmed.
My reasoning would be considering precentage absorption (sublingual/transdermal) how the rate of delivery is affected by heat and batch production. How addiction can be separated from the nicotine addiction given no definite readings of either within an individual's blood stream. How the psychological aspect is defined between two psychological stimulants and finally the complexity and part unknown composition of a cigarette and how this alters chemical state. Throw in user's conditions, heat/moisture/age of cigarette(s); cannot be factorised to a absolve the two from each other IMO.
Not to knock e-cigs, but do you ever see them on prescription, or through smoking cessation via your Pharmacist/GP programs? Or even the health benefits portrayed over the counter/packaging No? Perhaps because the NHS after considering this as a cheaper option were not consolidated in their opinions, law suits are expensive. Where it is sold is a business, when asked we say it is not a good alternative to a cigarette.
Wow sorry this got ridiculously long especially for a Sunday
Dr. T sorry for the negative outlook but in reality congrats. The hardest part is starting the cycle to stop, then its breaking the cycle to never have to start to stop again. Whatever method is aiding this is useful in stopping cigarettes. Just don't let marketing sugar coat it.
Nishy sorry but the Formaldehyde you are referring too is only created when a unsuitable device is ran at a high power, this produces a terrible disgusting taste and is like smoking the filter of a cigarette and saying look at all these chemicals that cigarettes give off we never knew about. If your stupid enough to do this its darwins law in effect.
There was been at least once ecig now licensed under medical regs now and this was very recent (that's why not on prescription as none had the mhra license) as from next year you will see these as a available prescription item.
Oh wow really, I never knew this, would it be a particular brand being prescribed, as I can't imagine a generic version. If as you say regulations are met, in the future if a component has proven negative health effect, law cases would be flying around like pigeons!
The aldehydes we are considering, have approx a million forms, in relation to certain flavours these can become cytotoxic at higher or lower temperatures having effect on the user. I believe from previous links a particular coffee flavoured aldehyde exhibited this. Benzene rings cannot be totally uniform with regards to one flavour, surely isotopes exist. Budget controls this quality no? I do appreciate that with the Magnetic Resonance it does identify the forms. Also the high heat test that was conducted wrongly with respect to users was just dumb.
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Yes a cig alike thing evoke? Or something similar it's a BAT product. There is currently a few others waiting or trying to get a medicine license but this is the first. The are all as bad as nrt as don't work very well so will have a high failure rate guaranteeing repeat business
There is also a separate company( I think it's not BAT) designing one for prison use since they are becoming smoke free.
I don't think for a minute ecigs are completely harmless but neither are most things. Do you know how bad McDonald's is for you just look at supersize me. I do know for certain they are a hell of a lot better than cigarettes are for you.
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e-cigs on prescription and you can't get a hip replacement for years? Yeah, yeah, harm reduction, but still...
See how I have resisted adding anything about the cost of bombing places beginning with S but you can't get the same hip replacement for years?