Getting knotted

Quick question.
I have recieved a 22mm knot and tried it in the 404 handle. It is a loose fit in the hole. Is this normal and do you just put enough glue in the hole to fill the gap, or should the knot be a tight fit in the hole to start with. At a guess i recon there is probably a 1.5mm difference in diameter. The hole is 15mm deep and with the plug sitting on the bottom of the hole the hair of the knot just lightly touches the the sides of the hole.
 
Does the 15mm deep hole give you the loft you want or are you going to have to drill it deeper?

My guess - based on guess-work - is that you'll have to drill deeper. The TGN knots I've used all have tall knots that needed to be sunk a fair ways into the handle to give the right loft and thus backbone.

The point here is that the more you sink the knot into the handle, the more the cone of hair fills/covers the gap between handle and knot plug. If you can find one - where? you could fit a metal ring to disguise the gap.

To fit the knot, bind the hairs tightly with masking tape to their very base. A helper or an elastic band will compress the cone pretty much to a rod then wrap the tape tightly. Mask the top of the handle as accurately as you can around the hole. Cut three packers a couple of millimeters shorter than the hole - 12 or 13mm long - match-sticks or some soft wood. Have a dry practice at fitting the knot and sliding the packers at 120 degrees to each other around the knot plug. At 0.75mm thick you will have to crush match-sticks to fit.

Excess epoxy in the bottom of the hole. Epoxy smear on the wall of the hole and on the plug. Push knot home carefully monitoring - and removing excess - the level of epoxy rising in the gap. Push the three packers home and remove displaced epoxy.

Ensure you are happy with knot placement. Put whole thing aside and do not touch for 24 hours, as mentioned earlier.

If you use a decorative ring, that has to be held above the knot plug during fitting and then pushed down into place - and the epoxy - as a final stage once you are happy with knot placement.

If that makes sense to you, I reckon you can pick out the bits you need for your project. Just make sure everything goes together as you want it before applying the epoxy!

Don't forget work surface protection and finger protection - I expect you are supposed to wear eye protection, too. SWMBO will not want epoxy on her kitchen table any more than you will want your fingers epoxy coated.

Remove the masking tape before using brush!!! but not before 24 hours.

Edit: Fido must have fitted dozens of knots for every one I have.
 
My knots usually fit into my handles just right!

I had thought that the 404 was made for a 21mm knot. I checked that and came across this:

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/archive/index.php/t-271466.html

Bechet's suggestions together with those in the thread should enable you to figure a way forward. I set most of my 22mm knots to a loft of 50mm. A bit lower will obviously give more backbone but that's for you to decide.
 
Cheers guys. Both the handles have some residule glue in the base at the moment. I will drill this out first and then dry fit and measure the loft. If need be i can pack the bottom with a coin. i just wanted to make sure that i hadnt missed anything. The soft wood packing sounds like a clever idea.
I will have a play.
 
Good luck. I sometimes get the opposite problem. Knots a bit too large for the hole. Another indicator that each one is handmade. I just place the base of the knot in a vice and gently tighten. Hasn't failed yet.
 
heroblob said:
The soft wood packing sounds like a clever idea.
Click to expand...

Aye, it's a very clever idea. Let's see if you still think that after you've pushed them into the epoxy.

Mask everything that shouldn't have epoxy on it when you come to shave!

The right sized knot for the right sized hole for the right sized knot is definitely the easiest way to go!

Bon chance!
 
Ok Guys,
The TNG knots arrived today. I have been adjusting the size and depth of the holes. One of the bulb knots being XH was actually tight around the top of the knot, and that was stopping the knot going into the hole. I have opened the hole out a touch to allow the knot to go in far enough to give me a 50mm loft. the knot is however tight in the hole and needs a reasonable push to get it in this far. How tight should the knot be. The Fan is a slightly slimmer knot and is a snug fit in the second handle. At present these would both only need a smear of glue to fix them. Is this right, or should the be an easy fit to allow a little more glue. At present they are both tight enough that I think I could easily use them without glue.
Once I know how tight the knot should be I will adjust as required and set them tomorrow.

Quick thought just came to me.
How does the tightness of the knot in the handle affect the bloom. If the knot is tight in the opening does this cause the bloom more than a loose fit, or the other way round. I like the look of a nice bloomy knot as apposed to a very upright knot.
 
All other things being equal. smaller diameter, less bloom. Things are seldom equal though!

Some more DIY tips:

http://shavenook.com/thread-shave-brush-restoration-non-steam-method

http://shavenook.com/thread-mistakes-made-lessons-learnt-while-re-knotting-shaving-brushes

I'm not endorsing all the conclusions and suggestions but there's some useful tips there.
 
Peter's right the tighter the diameter at the top of the handle the less bloom I know they do slightly open up the top ever so slightly by fluting the end when turning the rod to hollow for this, I have a Xh TGN super badger knot 26mm set at 50mm loft and all I will say is to me that's probably the perfect brush soft plenty of backbone and will do soap and cream equally as well.

Jamie.



 
Well a little disaster today.
Yesterday I had got both handles fairly close to where I thought they should be, albeit a little tight in the opening of the hole didn't want to open them before I knew more. Having read the replies and also the links peter gave I decided to enlarge the holes a touch. as I said I like a knot to bloom nicely.
Just giving the first handle a last little touch up and, I dropped it on the concrete of the garage floor. Lots of expletives latter and the handle is scrap. Did the second handle which will take the fan knot, and did it over the grass.

The fan has been set. And is now sitting out of the way for 24 hours. I now have to buy another 404 bodger to get another handle to complete the matching pair.

I'm a little disappointed with my self for being so stupid. At least it wasn't an expensive handle. Lesson learnt never to be repeated.
 
That's not how I saw it at the time Pete, but I know what you mean. At least its not the knot.
Once I track down a 404 I will get on with finishing the job.
 
[attachment=7252]
Picture of bodger pre bloom with TGN finest fan

[attachment=7253]

Post bloom after first lathering.

I haven't used it yet but it feels really nice in the hand. Really soft tips and a dense centre.

As soon as the new handle arrives I will get on with doing the bulb.
 

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heroblob said:
Picture of bodger pre bloom with TGN finest fan



Post bloom after first lathering.

I haven't used it yet but it feels really nice in the hand. Really soft tips and a dense centre.

As soon as the new handle arrives I will get on with doing the bulb.
Click to expand...


What loft did you opt for in the end?

Thinking of re-knotting my 404 too but would need to remove and measure for exact knot size.
 
They are 22mm finest badger XH. due to the extra hair the knot size is slightly bigger. The fan was a snug fit in the original hole, but I opened it out slightly to encourage the bloom I set the loft at 51mm.
The Bulb is a slightly larger knot than the fan and I enlarged the hole in the original handle, before I dropped it, a bit further. Just so it was a slip fit. This possibly opened the hole to around 23.5-24mm. Looking forward to getting the replacement handle, possibly tomorrow, so I can get the bulb done. The plan is to set that at 51mm the same.
 
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