Getting knotted

geezer

geezer

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Am going to reknot a Franks Shaving Finest 25mm brush after it decided to lose hairs rapidly and the loft is a bit high at 54mm.

Anyone know good knots on TGN that would work well for face lathering and allow lower loft setting if possible with this handle: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270949069270?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

I like the softness of the finest and considered a 24mm XH TGN. Also is thee a good way to remove which I suspect is to steam?

TIA
 
Pop the brush in a glass/ceramic container, put in a saucepan with lid and let it simmer in boiling water for about 30 minutes. It should then twist out easily and then you can remove any glue emaining to ensure it's clean for a new knot. I'm about to do one right now.
 
Thanks, got it done - well half way! Steam worked at treat cheers Fido.

deknotted.jpg


Now off to TGN to get the other part done.

How do you go about drilling to set a knot deeper and does it matter if the base isn't flush given a drill isn't flat?
 
geezer said:
Thanks, got it done - well half way! Steam worked at treat cheers Fido.

deknotted.jpg


Now off to TGN to get the other part done.

How do you go about drilling to set a knot deeper and does it matter if the base isn't flush given a drill isn't flat?
Click to expand...

Well done. I'll leave others to add any tips about drilling. I'd probably mess it up. But you will need a reasonably flat surface.
 
You need to know the total height of the knot, subtract the loft you want and thus you know the depth of hole you need.

If you need to drill the handles any deeper and don't have an flat-end drill bit - auger - either go buy one or use a 'normal' drill bit, which will give a steeply conical bottom to your hole. Put in a dod of epoxy and set a coin or metal disk to give a flat bottom - or if the hole is the right depth to give you your loft, set the knot directly in that dod of epoxy, making sure the knot looks right in the handle.

A column of coins or similar in the hole, each epoxy-ed to the one below - just a smear - will give you the correct loft. A dod of epoxy on top provides a bed for the knot.

I like to smear the side of the knot glue with new epoxy as I fit the knot - to stop water ingress - but beware using too much and getting it on the hairs.

Work within the cure time of the epoxy then put the brush to one side - away from other people especially children and wives and away from cats and most especially away from yourself. Do not touch for any reason for twenty-four hours.

Enjoy both the sense of achievement and the brushes!
 
Thanks for the info and detailed guide.

Just realized there are fan and bulb shapes. Have had a quick look and as always, a difference of opinion but for face lathering with 24mm knot - bulb or fan? The one in originally was bulb but loft too high.

Cheers.
 
'Tis a matter of taste and choice. Personally, in your shoes, I'd try a fan in one and a bulb in t'other - one experiment and one safe and sure. I like a fan for face lathering.

If you buy a fan, consider the loft you set. Imagine a bulb with the top chopped off - the effect on backbone and stiffness (but it's not a chopped bulb so tips are still soft, de dah). If you set a bulb for face lathering at 50mm (I do because Rod Neep does) then you might want to set a fan a smidgeon greater - 52 or 53mm, say. You can only know what suits you when the brush is in use - knowledge ready for next time. Too short a loft on a fan is like lathering with a stencil brush - I know!

So this thread is not only about re-knotting a brush, it's also about, "Why it is necessary to have many brushes". Even when you have perfect examples, it is necessary to replicate in different types of hair and knot size - as well as handle colours and shapes. You also need to know which soaps and creams are best suited to your brushes, so you need lots of them, as well. This is a very scientific hobby we are into!
 
That's grand info there, Carl. I much appreciate that and I'm sure the OP will as well.

A Forstner drill bit is the best thing for drilling accurate, flat bottomed holes but good ones aren't cheap and cheap ones aren't good ;). If you need to widen or clean up the hole, a Dremel with a small sanding drum attached, is an excellent method provided you ca' canny. Some of the knots TGN stock have shorter loft versions so these may be easier to fit.

Other than that I wish you well and look forward to seeing your results.
 
Fans are bigger on the face, generate lather faster when face lathering compared to a bulb.

The fan shape relaxes the back bone so when considering a loft, the rule I use myself is to set the fan 2mm lower than the bulb equivalent.

An example is in Shavemac, my favourite D01 3 band combo is a 22-23/50 in a bulb but this would be 48mm on a fan. It's also a similar prefered ratio with TGN 2 band knots for me too.

The result is the same backbone but different feel as more hair will be on your face.

Hope that helps a little.
 
Well that proves the point! If you can do a thing one of two ways, there will be folk in favour of each way. This leaves Geezer in a quandry, so we need more input from those who know. Fido? Rod?
 
The TGN Finest will have a firm backbone and will be fine for face lathering. The 24mm bulb shape will work well at 50/52mm loft according to how firm you want it to be. I'd set a fan shape 2mm lower.
 
In the Butterscotch Rooney I had, Bill Jack expertly set the loft of the 24mm TGN Finest bulb knot at 52mm and I thought that absolutely spot on. What do you think, Carl? I have also read that fan shapes splay more because more of the brush tips are in contact with one's face. I have a nice 24mm TGN Finest fan to go in a brush handle at some point so this thread has become essential reading.

Additionally, I think that the Simpsons approach of having what seems like an almost hybrid shape or halfway house between fan and bulb gives the best of both worlds and makes the most of their fantastic, dense knots.
 
Graeme, set the fan knot at 52mm to match the one that Bill has set, you will see the difference. It will change the brush quite a bit. To get the same feel, you need to reduce the loft down by 2mm at least. I found with TGN 2 band, 2mm gives the same backbone as a bulb but with better face feel and quicker lathering.
 
Thanks all for the input, much appreciated.

The fan/bulb idea has me thinking more and hadn't really considered quickness of lathering. Had an EJ Super Badger which was fan but fairly floppy although a smaller knot than the 24mm that I am considering.

Want quick lathering esp as I usually opt for MWF face-lathered. Having a shorter loft would mean less lather in the bristles for fan shaped brushes for 3 passes say. Do fan or bulb give up their lather the same for the 24mm TGN knot say too which has crossed my mind rather than having to squeeze lather out?

Thanks again.
 
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