If you've used a slant, what are your observations?

Having given a slant a fair trial (see above), I found that:

  • better than my conventional razors

    Votes: 17 47.2%
  • worse than my conventional razors

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • pretty much the same as my conventional razors

    Votes: 19 52.8%

  • Total voters
    36
@Fuzzyian - Ah, I understand now. I agree that a good test would be to take two razors that are closely matched in everything except the slant (and possible twist) of the blade—such as the Merkur 34C and the Merkur 37C. I have actually used that pair, and for me the difference is obvious: the 37C is noticeably more comfortable and noticeably more efficient. I attribute that to the obvious difference—the slant and twist of the blade—but I've encountered those who take as a premise that the slant of the blade cannot matter, so they assume the improved comfort and efficiency must come from something else (because, in their view, it cannot come from the slanted blade).

OTOH, there are obvious reasons why a slanted blade would improve cutting efficiency by introducing a small amount of shearing force to the cut, and even a small amount makes a difference. A purely compressive cut is not very efficient—a sharp samurai sword swung directly at a bamboo pole, trying to cut it using on compressive force, will bounce off and not cut at all; introduce even a little shearing force and the cut is easy and clean. The slant introduces a slight shearing action and thus a slight improvement in cutting ease.

Another way to find out would be to use the example of medical trials: people vary a lot in their response to medication because they are genetically different, have different diets and activity patterns, are different ages, etc. So when you are trying to decide whether a medication is effective, you give it to a whole bunch of people and count how many get better and how many don't seem to improve, without getting necessary into the minutiae of individual differences. That's what I've attempted with the poll. We now have a reasonable number who find that a slant shaves better (for them) than a conventional razor, and an equal number who find that it does not.

My explanation for the difference in perceptions (50% find a slant better, 50% find it about the same) is that the slant advantage is relatively small—it's a small slant—so that the benefit is not so easy to detect as the small differences between blades. Blades don't differ by much (in terms of measurements), but most (I would guess 80%-85%) find the differences obvious. Even there, though 15%-20% cannot detect any differences between different brands of blades. With slants, the difference clearly is harder to detect, since 50% cannot detect the difference. My guess is that, as the beard is tougher to cut, the slant's advantage becomes more obvious, and that seems especially true for those who have sensitive skin: a tough beard (which under pressure pushes against the skin) makes small decreases in cutting resistance more obvious. A beard that's quite easily cut makes it difficult to detect a small increase cutting efficiency.
 
Yeah, I'm talking solely about DE razors because I wanted to compare a slant with a conventional razor—i.e., razors that are basically the same except for the slanted blade—and so far as I know there are no SE slants.
I know of four bands/makers that produced SE-diagonals, and own razors by three of these brand/makers. One of them I've shown on this forum here.
Torqued SE's I'm not aware of, curved there was offcourse the Curv-fit, which is an SE with a curved blade for armpits and can't really be used for your face.

My explanation for the difference in perceptions (50% find a slant better, 50% find it about the same) is that the slant advantage is relatively small—it's a small slant—so that the benefit is not so easy to detect as the small differences between blades.
I suspect that this might be partially explained by the (perceived by me) fact that most people will have tried and compared more conventional DE's, finding one that fits their face, than that they will have tried and compared slants. So of the two variables, one is optimized and one is not. Time for another poll: the rate of conventional DE's used vs slants used: 1:1, 2:1, 3:1, 4:1, 1:4. With the present explosion of (cheapish) slants, that may change however.

One more possible explanation for the more comfortable shave with a slant, but only for the torqued ones, not the diagonals, is that torquing adds stiffness to the (edge of the) blade: less potential for chatter.
 
. . .I suspect that this might be partially explained by the (perceived by me) fact that most people will have tried and compared more conventional DE's, finding one that fits their face, than that they will have tried and compared slants. So of the two variables, one is optimized and one is not. Time for another poll: the rate of conventional DE's used vs slants used: 1:1, 2:1, 3:1, 4:1, 1:4. With the present explosion of (cheapish) slants, that may change however.

One more possible explanation for the more comfortable shave with a slant, but only for the torqued ones, not the diagonals, is that torquing adds stiffness to the (edge of the) blade: less potential for chatter.

@efsk - The first paragraph quoted about suggests that the "true" (but unrealized) distribution would more heavily favor the slants. That is, all things being equal (in terms of number of razors tried, blades explored, learning time, etc.), then those finding the slant better would be proportionately (much?) more.

Yeah I didn't even consider a torqued SE slant: blade's too thick. I was thinking of a pure slant, exhibited in the double edge format by the iKon Shavecraft 102.

Yeah, I've come across the rigidity argument, but I don't take much stock in it for two reasons: 1) for the, the feel and performance of the iKon 102 (slanted, not twisted) and the iKon X3 (both slanted and twisted) are close enough to identical; and 2) none of my conventional razors twist the blade and I have never noticed any problem regarding rigidity. Rigidity in one direction (across the blade) is guaranteed by Gaussian curvature, as I discuss in the Guide. Rigidity in the orthogonal direction (whos lack causes blade flutter: the edge moving up and down) is ensured by the cap's tight grip near the blade's edge: any flutter would have to occur between the edges (blade and cap), and in that short distance the steel is thick enough (in comparison with the distance) that the blade is rigid.
 
@efsk - The first paragraph quoted about suggests that the "true" (but unrealized) distribution would more heavily favor the slants. That is, all things being equal (in terms of number of razors tried, blades explored, learning time, etc.), then those finding the slant better would be proportionately (much?) more.
This is what I would expect, yes. I'm not quite sure if we agree on this point or not :)

Interestingly enough, the 102 and X3 are WILDLY differing beast for me. I found I don't really like "heavy" diagonals, and the 102 is a too heavy diagonal. I just don't get comfortable shaves wit it, and results are less than good as well. Comparing it with its predecessors:I love the all-plastic Mulcuto diagonal (although it can be a bit too harsh), and find I shave less well with the all-metal Mulcuto diagonal.
The X3 on the other hand I get great results with, I just don't think the razor is fun to use. It's a bit boring.

In general, I feel that shaving with a diagonal requires a bit more care than shaving with a torqued slant. They can bite a bit more easily.
 
I've heard that the 102 has a very narrow range for optimal angle. Apparently it's my natural angle, because I've never had any trouble at all—I know the problem only from reading reports on-line. So you might experiment with angle (as well as blade choice): what you describes sounds like what would happen were the angle off. (I've also read reports that the 102 clogs, but again I've never had the slightest trace of that problem.) So now I generally recommend the X3, though I'm going to switch—for the sake of those just wanting to try out a slant—to the German 37 head: $12 in the US and Canada. I've emailed Joe to suggest that he find a dealer in the UK. In the meantime ConnaughtShaving.com has some iKon slant heads that are seconds because of minor cosmetic issues.

But back to the 102. To me it shaves almost exactly like the Eros slant. another untwisted slant (photos at link). And if you remove the extraneous plastic added to the Eros to ensure that its silhouette was rectangular and not slanted. 102, he don't care, so the 102 has no extraneous material.
 
As I said: I love the all-plastic Mulcuto, yet don't get nice shaves with the all-metal. These two razors are identical but for material used and thus weight. They are also the razor that the 102 is based upon.
I own the Eros, as well as the identical model by several other brands. The Eros and Walbusch I've used, and these razors are terrific: marvelous shaves with no problem.
With diagonals, for me, the problem is always weight. The Eros/Walbusch/etc weighs 27-28 grams. The 102 head, no handle attached, 46, so if you wish to shave with it it gets heavier. The all-plastic Mulcuto 23 grams. I get terrific shaves with all lightweight diagonals I've tried. "Heavy," and shaves are not good. It's a pressure thing. With diagonals I need "negative pressure" which I can't maintain with the somewhat heavier diagonals.
 


I have to wonder if I disagree with you on this. I say wonder because I am too new to SE shaving to be sure what I feel about it.

In the course of my wet shaving, I have tried 50-60 DE razors, and only ever found three or four that I really loved. And by that I mean razors that combine efficiency and comfort at a point that just make them fun to shave with.

I terms of SE's and injectors, I have never found a single one that wasn't comfortable to use, and that I couldn't get a good shave with.

Some of the injectors are pretty mild, and I have a pretty coarse beard, so I need to buff ATG a little to get there, but they never give me any irritation, or ingrown hairs etc.. If I did the same thing with a Super Speed, I would be slathering my neck in Trumpers Skin Food.

By most accounts, the Mongoose is a fairly aggressive razor, but in terms of comfort, I rate it head and shoulders above any super efficient DE I have tried, and I have tried all the usually mentioned: R41, H2, Futur, Fatip etc...

Something for me makes SE shaving more comfortable. I am not sure what it could be, if the stiffness of the blades didn't come into play somehow.


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@efsk - I don't find the weight of the razor a problem, or at least I have an easy solution just along the lines you describe: I focus on the pressure I feel against my skin, and I know how much/little pressure I need: enough to keep the head in contact with the skin as I move the razor, but barely touching. So I make sure that's the pressure I have. For some razors, I must add a little pressure from my hand (as I do for the Dorco PL-602, the vintage Merkur bakelite slant, the Fine Superlite, the PAA Bakelite slant), with some I have to support some weight in my hand to reduce the pressure against my face (e.g., Merkur 39C, iKon DLC-clad stainless head on their heavy SE handle, even the regular iKon stainless slant), while for others no noticeable accommodation is needed.

YMMV with respect to how much pressure you want against your face, but you can control that pressure through the razor's handle, lifting slightly (taking up the weight) or pressing slightly (adding a bit of pressure) as required. That would allow you to use the 102.

Rereading the answer, I see that you say this is what you do but have trouble with consistency when relieving pressure (and, presumably, in adding pressure for the lightweight razors). What I found most helpful with heavy razors was not to focus at all on how much weight I'm holding off my face (focusing on the hand), but to focus on the pressure I feel on my face (focusing on the face, letting the hand be controlled by monitoring the face pressure). That helped me, and perhaps it may help you.
 
@PickledNorthern - The thickness of the SE blade probably is a factor, but also the design of the head: flat top against skin close to optimal angle.

I had a couple of Mongoose razors, and I do rate those high on both comfort and efficiency—any really good razor, IMO, will be both extremely comfortable and extremely efficient, and I have quite a few like that which range in price for $3 to $300.

However, I decided I didn't much care for the SE format (too much rinsing), and the Mongoose is a little bit wider. I finally decided to stick with the DE format.

One oddity in the list you have of razors tried, you don't mention any slants. I would suggest trying the Merkur 37C or the RazoRock German 37 or The Holy Black's SR-71 slant: they all have a pretty good record. (I'm hoping the German 37 will soon make it to the UK.) I personally like the iKon 102 or X3 a lot, but the 37C is readily available.
 
I always let my face tell me what to do with a razor: that is where the sharp end is :) Also: it is where the feedback is actually coming from. Cycling through a lot of razors this is something I learned pretty soon. This pressurething I ONLY have with the heavier diagonals. With nothing else. I get perfect shaves with the THB SR71 (holding it in my fist instead of between thumb and forefinger) or the Merkur 39c (holding it higher up the handle, like you say), yet the 102 or the Speed just don't work for me. Same as the Fine Ultralight doesn't work for me, yet the PAA and the ultralight Fasan slants are terrific. Adjustable conventionals, they don't work for me either. Got rid of my Fatboy real fast :) Kept the Ben Hur Mikron though, that is a thing of beauty in all its clunkiness.
 
@PickledNorthern - The thickness of the SE blade probably is a factor, but also the design of the head: flat top against skin close to optimal angle.

I had a couple of Mongoose razors, and I do rate those high on both comfort and efficiency—any really good razor, IMO, will be both extremely comfortable and extremely efficient, and I have quite a few like that which range in price for $3 to $300.

However, I decided I didn't much care for the SE format (too much rinsing), and the Mongoose is a little bit wider. I finally decided to stick with the DE format.

One oddity in the list you have of razors tried, you don't mention any slants. I would suggest trying the Merkur 37C or the RazoRock German 37 or The Holy Black's SR-71 slant: they all have a pretty good record. (I'm hoping the German 37 will soon make it to the UK.) I personally like the iKon 102 or X3 a lot, but the 37C is readily available.


As I mentioned a couple of times earlier in the thread, I have tried a good half dozen slant razors, and never got along well with any of them except the S2. The 37C was one of the most obnoxious razors I ever used. [emoji13]





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@PickledNorthern - I apologize. I am geting a lot of new information fast and I'm not doing a very good job keeping track. Interesting, though. From your preferences in the recent post I would have guessed the 37C for you: a bad guess, as it turns out.

I'll try to do better recalling the various razor histories.
 
@preidy - Yeah, the slant does indeed seem to encounter less cutting resistance, which (along with its mild, gentle feel on the skin) is why men with thick, tough beards and sensitive skin tend to like slants. (BTW, my response just under you post was to someone else, but I neglected to enter username. Apologies.)

No harm no foul...
@preidy - Yeah, the slant does indeed seem to encounter less cutting resistance, which (along with its mild, gentle feel on the skin) is why men with thick, tough beards and sensitive skin tend to like slants. (BTW, my response just under you post was to someone else, but I neglected to enter username. Apologies.)

Thanks. No harm no foul..
 
Just as an aside I think it would be nice if Razorock had a UK stockist too. The competitive price of his products is somewhat negated by shipping that is often more than the product itself.

Slants look a little intimidating to me as someone new to DEvshaving but maybe in time.
 
RazoRock is talking with one or more UK dealers now, so perhaps soon.

My advice is to use a conventional razor until you are routinely getting smooth and nick-free shaves, which indicates that you've learned to use light pressure and the optimal angle. At or after that point, I recommend trying a slant as a second razor. Use light pressure, do some blade exploration, and judiciously experiment with angle. So far it looks as though you have a 50-50 change getting a better shave and a negligible chance of getting a worse shaving (judging from the poll results).
 
I was wowed by slants when I was first starting out, but now I don't think much of them. They are alright but I don't actively wish for slant versions nowadays. I do find that my stubble growth is a little sharper if that makes any sense after I use a slant.
 
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