F1 2013

cruciate said:
Qualifying showed us how quick the red bull is this year. Nearly a second faster than the chasing pack.

The race was different because the red bull chewed its tyres up, while the lotus was much kinder to its rubber.
But the track was slippy and cold, and tyres don't work well on slippy tarmac.
This weekend, on a hot track, I would put my money on the red bull being very very fast indeed.

Hope I'm wrong. Kimi is far more entertaining to watch. And I want a close season, not ze finger week in week out.
But I fear that red bull are the ones to beat. And I suspect ferrari are the ones closest to them.
I usually think if one car in a team finishes way ahead of the other, the driver has made the difference.
Both ferrari 's were strong. Both McLaren's were mid pack. Both Mercedes were similar until nico broke down.
But Kimi was miles ahead of his team mate. I think Kimi drove the socks off that car.
Click to expand...

According to the Autosport "Racing Comments" (i.e. deluded fanboiz) forum, the McLaren is a very good car - it's the drivers that are useless. According to these wise observers, Button is either world-beating (when the car, tyres, circuit and phase of the moon align) or a total West Country numpty if any of those is slightly out. Perez is dismissed as being too inexperienced to be able to determine whether the car lacks downforce (which he and Button claim to be the problem), vs. lack of a decent set-up, which the fanboiz wise men of the forum declare is the only problem. Of course, as the wise men are all about 12 years of age:icon_rolleyes:, all they see is that Martin Whitmarsh claimed pre-season that the CFD/simulation data shows the MP4/28 to have umpteen % more downforce than its predecessor. Being members of the smartphone/"data is the real world" generation, they don't understand that computers can tell you that the car is capable of lapping Spa in under a minute; what counts is what the driver feels through his arse and hands, and that anyone who understands motorsport knows that you judge a car on how it responds on the circuit rather than by a stream of 0s and 1s.
 
Re: RE: F1 2013

chrisbell said:
According to the Autosport "Racing Comments" (i.e. deluded fanboiz) forum, the McLaren is a very good car - it's the drivers that are useless. According to these wise observers, Button is either world-beating (when the car, tyres, circuit and phase of the moon align) or a total West Country numpty if any of those is slightly out. Perez is dismissed as being too inexperienced to be able to determine whether the car lacks downforce (which he and Button claim to be the problem), vs. lack of a decent set-up, which the fanboiz wise men of the forum declare is the only problem. Of course, as the wise men are all about 12 years of age:icon_rolleyes:, all they see is that Martin Whitmarsh claimed pre-season that the CFD/simulation data shows the MP4/28 to have umpteen % more downforce than its predecessor. Being members of the smartphone/"data is the real world" generation, they don't understand that computers can tell you that the car is capable of lapping Spa in under a minute; what counts is what the driver feels through his arse and hands, and that anyone who understands motorsport knows that you judge a car on how it responds on the circuit rather than by a stream of 0s and 1s.
Click to expand...

Interesting.
Personally I think chico is a great prospect for the future. And button is world class. Admittedly last season button struggled in the latter stage of the season, compared with Lewis, but earlier in the season Jenson was performing better than Lewis.
If we knew from wind tunnels and computer simulations exactly how fast a car was going to be, we wouldn't have teams watching free practice so carefully, and there would be no need for the ban on mid season testing, because they wouldn't have to test it, they'd just know.
And let's not forget the old psychological games. You don't publicly come out and say your car is worse than last years, even if it is. You lose sponsors, your opponents get more confident, it's just business suicide. So you spout some figures about downforce, tell the world how confident you are, and hope that you can sort the issues quickly.
And then get the "experts" saying that the drivers must be the problem because the car is clearly amazing.
This is the problem with the Internet, people with no knowledge or experience can pretend to be experts.
Let's wait and see shall we? If McLaren go back to their old car and lap times improve, it can't be that the drivers are at fault.
I predict they might do just that, while they get on with correcting the issues. And then martin Whitmarsh can come out and say how they've identified the problem and made it even faster still.
And the "experts" will all excitedly exclaim that they knew all along how good the drivers were.

There is nowt so fickle as football fans, they say. But some F1 fans are trying hard to prove them wrong.
 
cruciate said:
chrisbell said:
According to the Autosport "Racing Comments" (i.e. deluded fanboiz) forum, the McLaren is a very good car - it's the drivers that are useless. According to these wise observers, Button is either world-beating (when the car, tyres, circuit and phase of the moon align) or a total West Country numpty if any of those is slightly out. Perez is dismissed as being too inexperienced to be able to determine whether the car lacks downforce (which he and Button claim to be the problem), vs. lack of a decent set-up, which the fanboiz wise men of the forum declare is the only problem. Of course, as the wise men are all about 12 years of age:icon_rolleyes:, all they see is that Martin Whitmarsh claimed pre-season that the CFD/simulation data shows the MP4/28 to have umpteen % more downforce than its predecessor. Being members of the smartphone/"data is the real world" generation, they don't understand that computers can tell you that the car is capable of lapping Spa in under a minute; what counts is what the driver feels through his arse and hands, and that anyone who understands motorsport knows that you judge a car on how it responds on the circuit rather than by a stream of 0s and 1s.
Click to expand...

Interesting.
Personally I think chico is a great prospect for the future. And button is world class. Admittedly last season button struggled in the latter stage of the season, compared with Lewis, but earlier in the season Jenson was performing better than Lewis.
If we knew from wind tunnels and computer simulations exactly how fast a car was going to be, we wouldn't have teams watching free practice so carefully, and there would be no need for the ban on mid season testing, because they wouldn't have to test it, they'd just know.
And let's not forget the old psychological games. You don't publicly come out and say your car is worse than last years, even if it is. You lose sponsors, your opponents get more confident, it's just business suicide. So you spout some figures about downforce, tell the world how confident you are, and hope that you can sort the issues quickly.
And then get the "experts" saying that the drivers must be the problem because the car is clearly amazing.
This is the problem with the Internet, people with no knowledge or experience can pretend to be experts.
Let's wait and see shall we? If McLaren go back to their old car and lap times improve, it can't be that the drivers are at fault.
I predict they might do just that, while they get on with correcting the issues. And then martin Whitmarsh can come out and say how they've identified the problem and made it even faster still.
And the "experts" will all excitedly exclaim that they knew all along how good the drivers were.

There is nowt so fickle as football fans, they say. But some F1 fans are trying hard to prove them wrong.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. I don't think anyone's disputing the fact that Button's weak area is in hustling a car that isn't balanced, but, if you read people like Mark Hughes (Autosports's F1 editor), who not only watches from just behind the Armco but interviews and chats with the drivers all the time, you realise that Button, far from being the insensitive oaf the internet experts claim, is actually hyper-sensitive to things that the more "instinctive" car hustlers like Hamilton either don't notice or ignore. Jenson admits that "pivoting" the car around the inside front wheel (Hamilton's great strength when a car isn't well-balanced) feels so unnatural to him as he's overwhelmed by sensory feedback. This means that he can't process quickly enough in order to be confident chucking the thing around.

Last years' confusion he got himself into was because he tried to make himself hustle the car, and the feedback it gave him made him think he was under-working the tyres when actually he was over-working them; had he been using his natural, smooth, Prost-like style, he'd have realised that in an instant, but, as he was so far out of his comfort zone, he went for a set-up which worked the tyres even harder, compounding the problem. He solved the problem by using Hamilton's setup (hence why the fanboiz claim he'll be all at sea this year, as they think Perez won't have any confidence in his setup either), which enabled him to understand the feedback e was getting from hustling the car and to make the best of a bad job. I'm convinced something similar happened to Damon Hill in 1995 - he overdrove given his natural tendency towards smoothness, and hence got into a muddle.
 
Lose the beard said:
I DON'T LIKE TEAM ORDERS :(
Click to expand...

They're not the greatest thing in F1, but they've been around in the sense of "hold position" for a long time. Fangio and Moss had something similar at Mercedes in 1955 - team manager Neubauer would hold out a pit sign with "RG" on it (for Regular/Regulare) once they had a certain gap over their nearest challenger, and it's worth noting that Moss, who was then the same age as Vettel is now, didn't ignore him.:angel:
 
I've disliked vettel for some time, but couldn't justify why. I love his ability, I liked him in interviews, yet somehow disliked him generally.
Today gives me a good reason. And for that I thank you seb.
Webber is right to be angry. If it had been a British driver behind I would've been miffed that he was told to slow down, but I would've been disgusted if said British driver has ignored orders.
I'm sure formula one was once a gentleman's sport.
 
cruciate said:
I'm sure formula one was once a gentleman's sport.
Click to expand...

Was almost once, but that was a long time ago.:angel::icon_razz: I suspect this will go one of two ways. Either Vettel will rethink his approach and accept the team orders, or he'll go the other way and decide to do what he sees fit at the time, in which case I can see plenty more "Newey head in hands" moments in future.
 
Webber could do with developing the Damien Hill mentality.
"listen christian, you can tell seb to back off, and have a one two finish, or you can pick two cars out of the gravel. Your call. "
Bet it would only happen a few times.
 
Re: RE: F1 2013

cruciate said:
Webber could do with developing the Damien Hill mentality.
"listen christian, you can tell seb to back off, and have a one two finish, or you can pick two cars out of the gravel. Your call. "
Bet it would only happen a few times.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more.
 
Fido said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I read that as well.

To be fair, he is a racing driver and he races to win. If his side of the garage manage to put together a better package in the car for him to race with then he should win. Of course team orders are there to be obeyed by the team members and I'm sure they are not happy with him, but they are not going to upset him as he is their best chance to secure another championship.

I would imagine that during a race, winning being something you have been brought up to do, you would do anything to win.

It's probably similar to being in the car with my wife, she tells me not to overtake the slow person in front as their isn't space, so I ignore her and overtake anyway.
 
It's obvious that Vettel is a instinctive racer whose psychology during the race is intense and no-holds-barred; on that basis maintaining a team orders policy would be a Titanic-deckchair-rearrangement exercise, particularly given the probable reluctance of Webber to let Vettel past if told.
 
I was thinking that during the race Peter.

I reflected on how things would be without tyre changes and realised that things would then be no different to series such as German Touring Cars (DTM) and would make for rather boring racing.

I like the fact that tyre choice and DRShave become a major factor in F1 these days - it certainly makes things more interesting from a spectators view.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom