Artisan soaps vs mass produced

We are never going to agree when you say things like you are paying more only because it's a small scale operation and not because the small operator is using top quality ingredients. I think there is an inherent quality in artisan soaps and I think the producer's of these products would agree with me. Go and tell James from @OSP that you don't think his products have any inherent quality and therefore value and see what his thoughts are, infact he had to duck out of the thread because he was so incensed he thought he may have said something he later regretted, I now know how he must have felt, well no......
.he must have felt much worse, he and other artisan soap makers charge more for their products not just because they are a small scale operation but because they are artisans and they do care about their products and they do use nothing but the best of ingredients to bring us, those who care about what we put on our skin quality products and we don't mind paying for it because we know it's better and we know it's worth every penny.
Please don't tell me because I'm paying more for it I therfore believe it's better, because that would be quite insulting not only to me but everyone else who buys their products because we know we are getting a better product.
As I said before, I am not being argumentative I just feel strongly that what I am saying is right.
 
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Blademonkey said:
We are never going to agree when you say things like you are paying more only because it's a small scale operation and not because the small operator is using top quality ingredients. I think there is an inherent quality in artisan soaps and I think the producer's of these products would agree with me. Go and tell James from @OSP that you don't think his products have any inherent quality and therefore value and see what his thoughts are, infact he had to duck out of the thread because he was so incensed he thought he may have said something he later regretted, I now know how he must have felt, well no......
.he must have felt much worse, he and other artisan soap makers charge more for their products not just because they are a small scale operation but because they are artisans and they do care about their products and they do use nothing but the best of ingredients to bring us, those who care about what we put on our skin quality products and we don't mind paying for it because we know it's better and we know it's worth every penny.
Please don't tell me because I'm paying more for it I therfore believe it's better, because that would be quite insulting not only to me but everyone else who buys their products because we know we are getting a better product.
As I said before, I am not being argumentative I just feel strongly that what I am saying is right.
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None of what you've just posted, Paul, really reflects my view but it does indicate that you have misunderstood my position. I'm sure that many artisan shaving soap manufacturers have very strong feelings about what they produce...just check out my posts from yesterday on P&B's thread for evidence about my views on their products. Also, I'll post a pic of my shave soap collection if you like...it includes a mix of mass produced and (mostly artisan) soaps. I stick by what I have said...it does not matter what a manufacturer puts in their soap or how much it costs them...a cheaply made soap can deliver an equal or better result for many users, and small scale producers have to charge a higher price because they don't have the economies of scale of the bigger producers. Sometimes the higher price for the user is worth it...sometimes it's not.

An artisan could mix gold leaf in their soap and charge a massive price as a result...it won't make it a better soap!

I've just had a great idea: MODERATOR PLEASE DELETE THIS THREAD!!!:D:D:D:D:D
 
Greybeard said:
None of what you've just posted, Paul, really reflects my view. I'm sure that many artisan shaving soap manufacturers have very strong feelings about what they produce...just check out my posts from yesterday on P&B's thread for evidence about my views on their products. Also, I'll post a pic of my shave soap collection if you like...it includes a mix of mass produced and (mostly artisan) soaps. I stick by what I have said...it does not matter what a manufacturer puts in their soap or how much it costs them...a cheaply made soap can deliver an equal or better result for many users, and small scale producers have to charge a higher price because they don't have the economies of scale of the bigger producers. Sometimes the higher price for the user is worth it...sometimes it's not.

An artisan could mix gold leaf in their soap and charge a massive price as a result...it won't make it a better soap!
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Then you must re read what you posted at 15.47
 
Blademonkey said:
Go and tell James from @OSP that you don't think his products have any inherent quality and therefore value and see what his thoughts are, infact he had to duck out of the thread because he was so incensed he thought he may have said something he later regretted, I now know how he must have felt...
Click to expand...

How can I tell James from OSP anything when I've not tried his soaps? If I do try them (and I recently mentioned on this thread that I hadn't but I probably would) then I'll judge them as follows:
  1. Do they do a good job?
  2. Does the job they do justify the price charged?
If the answer to these questions is yes, then i will buy more.
I don't care how much 'love' goes into the cream.....it don't mean I'll pay more for the opportunity to rub it into my face.
 
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Greybeard said:
None of what you've just posted, Paul, really reflects my view but it does indicate that you have misunderstood my position. I'm sure that many artisan shaving soap manufacturers have very strong feelings about what they produce...just check out my posts from yesterday on P&B's thread for evidence about my views on their products. Also, I'll post a pic of my shave soap collection if you like...it includes a mix of mass produced and (mostly artisan) soaps. I stick by what I have said...it does not matter what a manufacturer puts in their soap or how much it costs them...a cheaply made soap can deliver an equal or better result for many users, and small scale producers have to charge a higher price because they don't have the economies of scale of the bigger producers. Sometimes the higher price for the user is worth it...sometimes it's not.

An artisan could mix gold leaf in their soap and charge a massive price as a result...it won't make it a better soap!

I've just had a great idea: MODERATOR PLEASE DELETE THIS THREAD!!!:D:D:D:D:D
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Greybeard said:
Not sure what your point iso_O
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Well, if I must explain it all over again..... I was/ am disagreeing with your comments, such as and I quote... I don't believe artisan soaps in general terms deserve any greater price for their quality than mass produced ones.

QUOTE.. My point is the price for artisan soaps is mostly related to their small scale production rather than any inherent quality.

QUOTE the price is based on largely production costs plus the notion that often people actually like to pay a little more for certain products because they feel that they are getting quality... End quote
I disagree with all of that, now after reading what you have written go to my reply and read that carefully and you will understand why I do not agree with what you said.
 
Greybeard said:
How can I tell James from OSP anything when I've not tried his soaps? If I do try them (and I recently mentioned on this thread that I hadn't but I probably would) then I'll judge them as follows:
  1. Do they do a good job?
  2. Does the job they do justify the price charged?
If the answer to these questions is yes, then i will buy more.
I don't care how much 'love' goes into the cream...as far as I know someone could wank into their shave cream and argue that it reflects their true love for their product...it don't mean I'll pay more for the opportunity to rub it into my face.
Click to expand...
See when you have to result to saying thing's like that you know that you have lost the argument, let's try and keep it clean and decent please.
 
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Blademonkey said:
Well, if I must explain it all over again..... I was/ am disagreeing with your comments, such as and I quote... I don't believe artisan soaps in general terms deserve any greater price for their quality than mass produced ones.

QUOTE.. My point is the price for artisan soaps is mostly related to their small scale production rather than any inherent quality.

QUOTE the price is based on largely production costs plus the notion that often people actually like to pay a little more for certain products because they feel that they are getting quality... End quote
I disagree with all of that, now after reading what you have written go to my reply and read that carefully and you will understand why I do not agree with what you said.
Click to expand...
Sorry Paul...I have explained everything in clear detail and i don't intend to go over it again. However, to illustrate my point for the last time, here's a simple reality for you:

A mass shaving soap producer buys up an artisan business, soap recipes and all. The mass producer can afford to buy all of the specialist ingredients (that the artisan has put much love and affection into) in bulk and therefore reduce the production costs. The mass producer can therefore make the same profit on each tub of shaving cream as the artisan even by selling at a lower price. The product is identical but the price is lower. The user sees no difference except in the price.

The irony: The mass producer retains the artisan label and identity and still charges the same price as the artisan...making even more profit per tub of cream! (genius? no...economics 101).

People pay for labels and they like the idea of artisan products...but what matters TO ME is how it works.

I can't see why you have a problem with my view...I've been consistent in all my posts.
 
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