Abu Hamza and four others to be deported

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Sorry Lloyd, yet again, I'm not following your post. You seem to be rambling without a focus to your posts. I agree with you on the move away from the old social contract, and the Miners' Strike seemed to be part of that.
 
I wrote;
"Tory voters should be locked up for Treason, selling the State at bargain prices to a small circle of largely non-nationals."
Please read these two in order, just about everything printed is confirmed by proper Economists, even right wing ones. Is this what "the majority voted for"?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ramesh-patel/david-cameron-ed-balls_b_1920913.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ramesh-patel/george-osborne-economics_b_1946127.html

Along with the private sector being allowed/encouraged to "trade" legal rights entitlements for "promises" from April (the state protection being removed from some), announced yesterday. Exemption from the law for privatised, state funded schools etc.(the State withdrawing from planned education) etc.
Just how powerful/connected will an individual need to be to "count"? Koch?, Singer?, Adelson?
love'n'joy
Lloyd
 
I've read the whole thread.

I've weighed up all the points raised.

I've followed the links, that have lead me onto other links.

I've sat and thought long and hard about what my considered opinion on this whole matter is and have prepared a suitable contribution.

'Meh!'
 
Hi Chrisbell,
I'm trying not to be 'prescriptive/bullying/preaching whatever'(Fundamentalist?!!).
i agree that " Mind you, I reckon that anyone who stabs police officers deserves to spend time in prison." but as you took from my post, I think the contract was broken.
You wrote " It just seems a waste of time, effort and money to have him in isolation unable even to move out of range of cameras to have a shower, unable to have proper contact with his lawyers", but I had argued earlier that it is the profit driven penal system, that spends a fortune on lobbying that seek to decide what is justifyable.
To joe mcclaine and others with similar anarchistic tendencies, I'd quote Martin Niemöller.

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
By (Friedrich Gustav Emil) Martin Niemöller (1892 – 1984) was a Protestant pastor and social activist.
love'n'joy
Lloyd
 
This sort of thread confuses the hell out of me. I have started to believe that I should have no opinions on anything other than issues that absolutely directly affect me or I can have some real influence on.

For any issue there are a multitude of opinions, many held by very clever people. Some come at them from a theoretical point of view, others from a practical. Views and opinions can change radically throughout a lifetime, I know some of mine have. How on earth do I know what is right and what is wrong?

For most of my life I have been scornful of those people who, when asked the name of the Prime Minister or what global warming is, have absolutely no idea. When it comes down to it does it really matter?

Oh dear, is the mid-life crisis really kicking in already??? :huh::huh::huh:
 
I agree with PC, this thread seems to have lost its way, or perhaps I have? I think it originally started out discussing the deportation of a convicted terrorist, but we seem to have moved onto the economy and scheming politicians. All politicians mince their words so that they can retract or deny them later, or blame the 'context' being wrong, so I trust them less than a used car salesman. In fact I trust a used car salesman more, at least you know what he's trying to do!

I'm off for a cuppa now, something you always know is good. :icon_razz:
 
Todays acquisitions are: some Vintage UK Wilks, a Gillette UK Rocket and..........er..............some..............er

oops............i had mistakenly thought this was a Shaving Forum for a second :blush::blush::blush::blush::blush:
 
lloydedwards said:
i agree that " Mind you, I reckon that anyone who stabs police officers deserves to spend time in prison." but as you took from my post, I think the contract was broken.
Click to expand...

Just because a police officer's superiors at the top of the police federations and in the Home Office broke their end of the contract in no way justifies a criminal breaking theirs by stabbing that officer. If you're trying to somehow justify the stabbing or say it's less serious than it otherwise would be due to the politics of the situation, then I think you need to reconsider where politics ends and human decency takes over.

lloydedwards said:
You wrote " It just seems a waste of time, effort and money to have him in isolation unable even to move out of range of cameras to have a shower, unable to have proper contact with his lawyers", but I had argued earlier that it is the profit driven penal system, that spends a fortune on lobbying that seek to decide what is justifyable.
Click to expand...

Surely there are easier targets, even for a profit-driven system (which I should point out I do not think it should be)? If the charges we know of genuinely are the only ones for which he was sentenced, then it's clearly a gross injustice. I must say I'm not convinced.


lloydedwards said:
To joe mcclaine and others with similar anarchistic tendencies, I'd quote Martin Niemöller.
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
By (Friedrich Gustav Emil) Martin Niemöller (1892 – 1984) was a Protestant pastor and social activist.
love'n'joy
Lloyd
Click to expand...

Now that I'll agree with you on - however, the situation, whilst it shows dangerous precedents and procedures which I feel are morally wrong, isn't yet even in the same galaxy as what happened in Nazi Germany. In addition, though I'm aware that Communist Party members in Germany were causing unrest, the level of threat they posed was small compared to that or organised Islamic fundamentalism, as was the number of radicalised individuals.

I think part of the reason that many (myself included) have been slightly dismissive of your posts is that you persist in comparing essentially incomparable examples, thereby weakening the strength of your argument. One parallel which can be draw between Nazi Germany and present-day US is that fear means that many citizens are prepared to surrender some of their liberties in order to enhance security. Intellectually, this seems like a poor choice and can be criticised; what must be considered, though, is that when people feel afraid or threatened, intellectual thought (even if they were capable of it in the first place) tends to take a back seat.
 
i have followed this thread with interest, but am becoming a bit confused now.

Lloyd, please don't take this the wrong way but I don't think this forum is the right arena for airing some of your more extreme views. I'm sure you're convinced you're right and we need to be enlightened but so does the bloke who stands in the town centre shouting out scripture from the bible whilst holding a 'Jesus Saves' placard.

Personally, I like a lively discussion but as soon as someone starts lecturing or hectoring me I immediately turn off.
 
Oh dear, is the mid-life crisis really kicking in already???


Some grow old, some grow up Pigcat. It's no crisis M8, just the onset of maturity, my guess.

& I'm guessing, Steve, that a few more photos of the former Gillette factory & an update on your attempts to gain custody on behalf of TSR of the clock are just what's needed to refocus us (mea maxima culpa) on the serious issues of life, glycerine soaps & SE razors for example.

JohnnyO. \:icon_razz:
 
Wasn't there a request for a political forum recently? Didn't the majority of members vote 'nay'? Didn't the dictators (sorry mods) vote 'nay'. I'll leave it at that.
 
Boab said:
Wasn't there a request for a political forum recently? Didn't the majority of members vote 'nay'? Didn't the dictators (sorry mods) vote 'nay'. I'll leave it at that.
Click to expand...

Ah pity the fool who suggestipated such a stoopid thing (said in my best MR T voice).

I think maybe the thread got a little bit off topic and 'animated' at times. I confess to not following the thing very closely, but man........I have never seen so much swearing in one thread. Tells me there's lots of other fun stuff just below the surface. Yow.

I think maybe a new knitting section of the forum might be best,

Martin
 
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