Unnecessary reformulations - why?

shavecraft said:
Bit of a rant here, apologies.

Can anyone cast any light on the fad for reformulating perfectly good, often excellent, soaps creating often inferior "new improved" versions?

WTF is it about? Anyone have any idea?
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Hi there,

Having read about this subject years ago, I may be way off on my thoughts about the tallow removal situation. From what I recall it was more of a perceived issue of using 'healthy' ingredients. Animal fat (tallow) doesn't sound as appealing (and green) as palm oil.

What's nuts is what some of the high end companies came up with when they changed em. The really surprising ones were Pens and Floris.....both expensive brands. Yeah, for a while there these two were getting nailed with bad reviews and I can't imagine why they were released for sale. I should mention this was a few years ago and I believe most of the problems have been resolved with the formulas.

Anyway, it showed either a lack of testing or a disregard for the consumer, or both. I never tried the Pens with tallow, but did have some of the old Floris in the JF flavor. That was one of the top soaps I've ever used.

The other weird thing was getting some companies to admit to a problem with their stuff. Hell, some of em wouldn't even admit the formula was even changed. There was a LOT of returns going on for a while with some brands.

Martin
 
joe mcclaine said:
1. Money which is linked to...
2. Pandering to the 'right on' brigade

They're not running charities.
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Got to say I'm thinking Vinny is on the money here. That plus, perhaps the cost of the "original" ingredients.
I only know that Floris No 89 shaving soap used to be rated really well & the bottle & its contents of No89 "Old Stock" I got from Pedro (thanks for withdrawing that from Ebay as a favour for a belated offer m8) demonstrated to me that what we can currently buy from major suppliers isn't always what they provided to customers when they were obtaining their reps.

But then, I'm old & things just ain@t what they used to be........

JohnnyO. \:huh:
 
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But then, I'm old & things just ain@t what they used to be........

JohnnyO. \:huh:
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Don't think age is so much to do with it JohnnyO, at least not in a bad way. Sure, we no doubt all get more cynical with age, but personally I think it's more about knowing what quality is and noticing when it slips...we notice that more with experience I'm sure, but that's different to just being a curmudgeonly old bugger for the sake of it. Not 40 yet here by the way n still telling myself I'm not middle aged 'til I get to that milestone!
 
JohnnyO said:
I only know that Floris No 89 shaving soap used to be rated really well & the bottle & its contents of No89 "Old Stock" I got from Pedro (thanks for withdrawing that from Ebay as a favour for a belated offer m8) demonstrated to me that what we can currently buy from major suppliers isn't always what they provided to customers when they were obtaining their reps.

But then, I'm old & things just ain@t what they used to be........

JohnnyO. \:huh:
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Hi you old geezer,

Yeah, you're right about the older juice often times being preferred over the current version. Funny how that works.

Martin
 
I've found that in life many mistake Activity for Productivity. Most people, businesses and governments today feel that by running around changing things for no purpose rather than change for change sake makes them Productive. In most cases nothing can be further from the truth.
 
Well said, Johnus!

Shavecraft just shot me down in flames before I even posted. I was beginning to think this is all about things having been better in the good old days, as every generation seems to think - but you aren't old enough to have experienced the good old days - and they weren't, by the by, compared to today.

You won't be middle-aged at your 40th - they've been lying to you. Life begins at 50 and gets really interesting when the mortgage is paid off. I'm middle-aged, rushing at 70. You - spring chicken!
 
My mortgage will be paid off before I'm 42 so I suppose I'll have MANY years of interesting life to look forward to. Brilliant.
 
We once a lady from Penhaligon's pop her head in here for 5 minutes, and she got asked a similar questions.

I think that I susggested that maybe they produce both a tallow and a palm based version of their soap, and let US decide which one we want to use. Not sure that I received an intelligent reply.

Ian
 
Erasmic- thought i'd see if there was a difference . Tried some older cream that I had and the 'new' stick. Used the same open razor with both. ! Definitely a big difference. The stick, no matter how wet I got it on my face felt and shaved very 'dry', while the older cream gave a very smooth shave. My face also felt a lot 'drier' after I finished with the stick.

Positive... The new stick does come in a very nice tube!
 
Johnus said:
Positive... The new stick does come in a very nice tube!
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I've heard very mixed reviews of the new "supreme" formula stick (or were you using the new classic that they discontinued when they reverted back to the good old formula?). At least the tube may serve as a nice travel tube for a better stick! Yep, that old formula cream's a good un.
 
The 'Supreme' stick is the same as the soap in the black bowl, which is a very good glycerin-based soap.

The regular sticks are the tallow (or not) based ones in familiar shave stick form.

I'd take the glycerin one over the normal sticks any day.
 
joe mcclaine said:
The 'Supreme' stick is the same as the soap in the black bowl, which is a very good glycerin-based soap.

The regular sticks are the tallow (or not) based ones in familiar shave stick form.

I'd take the glycerin one over the normal sticks any day.
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I've yet to try the glycerine Erasmic, think I'll give it a whirl when I next need to top up on soaps, which won't be for a while. Seen quite a few good reviews for it.
 
Does Trumpers still use tallow?

A quick glance at my own supplier's prices confirms that tallow currently is about 30% more expensive than palm, so that might be a clue. There's also a myth that tallow is bad for the skin (perhaps it is occlusive in it's pure form, but not when saponified). As well, I have found another source of palm that is half the price of my supplier (and comes with the "sustainably sourced" stamp). I have no idea how the prices change at the wholesale level, though, as I am a small time soapmaker.

As well, the trend to advertise the use of sustainable palm in one's soap products is very strong right now.

I will keep using tallow, though- it's one of the main reasons I am becoming more serious about shaving soap. I can't recall off the top of me head and of the other gals on my soapmaking forum (UK) using tallow at all- in the US that's another matter...
 
Trumpers don't use tallow any more.

Neither do Floris or Penhaligons. Truefitt & Hill and Taylors are also tallow-free.

There's a bit in D R Harris ... for the time being.

Czech & Speake still has tons of tallowy goodness in its shaving soap, as has Mitchell's Woolfat.
 
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