The European Union: in or out?

EU: in, out or undecided

  • Total voters
    64
There is little regulation "forced upon us" most of the EU stuff comes out as recommendations which are then left up to the local Government to enforce ..or not. All EU members get to vote on such "legislation" and we have a hand in them rather than being helpless in the face of Brussels.

Many of the "regulations" that people decry are about making sure all member states follow the same rules for the same products/industries etc thus meaning producers only have to make one version for all countries and buyers can buy in confidence. c.f. the "bent banana" and jam jar stories.

Equally the EU cannot overrule our elected government it doesn't have the power - it does have some capacity to make our government actually fulfil things it has promised to do. Like stay within the regulations it helps to write.

If we left the EU but still wanted to trade with the EU we'd still have to follow the regulations; if we had different regulations to the EU people who traded with us would have to make different products for us and Europe - would they bother?

To clarify a point that often confuses; the European Court of Human Rights is nothing to do with the EU and is something we helped to set up. ECHR does have the right to overrule the UK government if they do something which is illegal under the Laws we helped to create and agreed to abide by c.f. Abu Hamza.
 
pugh-the-special-one said:
Having a free and open market is a very good thing, but I didn't remember them telling me that a unelected group of people in Brussels will make decisions and create laws and dictate what we can or cannot do in the UK I'm 100% sure if the UK public were told that from day one no one in their right mind would have agreed.
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Which is why many people will vote out.

Just because we're not in the EU any more, doesn't mean other countries won't trade with us.
I wonder if migrant workers will see more restrictions, which means more jobs for British workers, if they'll take them! I don't understand why we don't have a points system like Australia. Use the same method, just over here - the logistics is already in place for Aus.

Parliament is afraid people will vote out, which is why many parties aren't offering a referendum. Surely though, that is their job... to do what the people of this country want, not just a few toffs in London.

I have yet to see any valid points about why we should stay in it. Same with Scotland. If they want to be independent, good luck to them but it would make things more complicated both ways.
 
Poll is neck and neck; interesting, I thought traditional shavers might be more "conservative" (with a small c) than the general population as a whole.

Funny aside: I remember back in the 1980's Billy Bragg was on Radio 4 and some Tory minister said something like "When it comes to capital punishment, I'm a conservative with a small c." To which Billy replied: "Well, you're something with a small c."
 
pugh-the-special-one said:
Having a free and open market is a very good thing, but I didn't remember them telling me that a unelected group of people in Brussels will make decisions and create laws and dictate what we can or cannot do in the UK I'm 100% sure if the UK public were told that from day one no one in their right mind would have agreed.
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I'm too young to have had a chance to vote in or out, based on the arguments I've seen from the period and dicussions with my Father and Uncles I'd probably have voted against...

Count of Undolpho said:
There is little regulation "forced upon us" most of the EU stuff comes out as recommendations which are then left up to the local Government to enforce ..or not. All EU members get to vote on such "legislation" and we have a hand in them rather than being helpless in the face of Brussels.

Many of the "regulations" that people decry are about making sure all member states follow the same rules for the same products/industries etc thus meaning producers only have to make one version for all countries and buyers can buy in confidence. c.f. the "bent banana" and jam jar stories.

Equally the EU cannot overrule our elected government it doesn't have the power - it does have some capacity to make our government actually fulfil things it has promised to do. Like stay within the regulations it helps to write.

If we left the EU but still wanted to trade with the EU we'd still have to follow the regulations; if we had different regulations to the EU people who traded with us would have to make different products for us and Europe - would they bother?

To clarify a point that often confuses; the European Court of Human Rights is nothing to do with the EU and is something we helped to set up. ECHR does have the right to overrule the UK government if they do something which is illegal under the Laws we helped to create and agreed to abide by c.f. Abu Hamza.
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Most EU legislation is issued a directive, if we do not implement closely enough to the directive the EU will impose financial penalties. The Control of Asbestos Regulations 2006 were repealed and reissued as The Control of Asbestos Regulations 2012 following a running battle between the EU and the HSE over directive technicalities, the upshot being "change or pay millions in fines" from the EU.

The European Communities Act 1972 made this posible, it's one of the bits of legislation that any EU member has to put an equivalent of on the books.

Through this act the EU does impose legislation directly into all its member states, when legislation is put onto the books as a regulation, not a directive, it is applied to all member countries as written with no lattitude for interpretation. EU Regulations are becoming more common, not less. From a HSE point of view we've got a couple of new EU regulations on the way in the next few years, covering areas we already have effective legislation in place for.

Despite that ^^ my chief objection is the existance of the unelected mandarins at the top.

I've cited HSE legislation as it's an area I'm familiar with, I've heard of other regulations in the pipeline, but am less aware of the likelihood of them being implemented.
 
Why the heck did we fight two world wars to save our sovereignty, our freedom and way of life to have daft rules imposed upon on by the very countries we either fought against or to preserve? Yes, ancient history some might say but for Brussels to say that we cannot sentence the most wicked and vile criminals to 'whole of life' sentences is just plain out of order. The likes of yon Dale Cregan and other scum belong rotting in gaol, away from society and not let back out on the streets after some length of so-called rehabilitation, however long.

The British people and its elected government should be able to decide matters for our own country's needs and not the satisfaction of of central European plutocrats who do not know either our many cultures or way of life. They are too distant, remote and disconnected from real life in this country to have any meaningful decision making power in their grasp. What works for one does not necessarily work for another.
 
O.K. Now for the most highly controversial statement to date.....possibly. If only for the Human Rights Act, I'm with Europe all the way. There are many stories of cases concerning Human Rights which didn't seem very meritorious, and were probably reported in the Sun..... but there are many more that have saved lives, in every sense. If we don't believe that the right to respect for home, private and family life, life itself, protection from torture and degrading treatment, slavery, religious freedom, and several others are fundamental to a civilised society - one would have to question whether we are a civilised society.
 
Count of Undolpho said:
To clarify a point that often confuses; the European Court of Human Rights is nothing to do with the EU and is something we helped to set up. ECHR does have the right to overrule the UK government if they do something which is illegal under the Laws we helped to create and agreed to abide by c.f. Abu Hamza.
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Sharon, I think the Human Rights legislation comes from the Court (above) not the EU.

But I may be wrong about that.

So Norway and Switzerland have all that (right and obligations) without being in the EU.
 
soapalchemist said:
one would have to question whether we are a civilised society.
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What's cookin Toots,

With apologies to the OP for the partial thread derailment, I have no ideas on this subject at all. I was hoping the resident Alchemistress can work this link.

Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Zc9uUEmcJ8
 
I identify with my friends from many diverse countries around the continent than I do with my next door neighbour. I look forward to a time where nationalism has become even more of an anachronism.
 
The popularity of UKIP genuinely scares me. It's just BNP Lite from what I can tell. It seems to me that it is trying to attract the types of people that would happily see this country become a somewhat nastier place to live in. If they want out of Europe it just reinforces my view that we're better off part of a bigger community of countries.
 
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