Utterly bewildered by skincare

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517
Hi guys,

I wondered if I'm the only one that feels this way:

Basically I've been out of face wash and moisturiser for a while now, and have been using Johnson's Baby soap, which seems pretty mild. It is tallow based and contains Vaseline (I think). It's dirt cheap.

Anyway... I've been looking round various stores and have become completely overwhelmed by the sheer number of skincare products. I have been thinking the following:

  • Why are there men's and women's ranges? Is male/female skin really that different or is it just marketing? I sometimes use my girlfriend's products and they seem much better quality than the men's equivalent.

  • Do we really need face wash, face scrub, aftershave balm, aftershave splash, moisturiser, etc etc? Will soap do? Or maybe the Oil Cleansing Method?

  • Which products actually contain good quality skincare ingredients, and are reasonably priced, and don't rely on gimmicky marketing language to sell/make false claims about a product? Any with minimal unnecessary ingredients?

  • So many words used like "energising", "revitalisting", "awakening", "toning", "refreshing", "re-awakening", etc. Surely this is all marketing BS?

    For example, from L'oreal Men's website: "Find it difficult to wake up your skin? Sometimes soap can tighten and dry out the skin, Hydra Energetic FOAMING CLEANSING GEL cleanses and wakes up the skin without drying it out."

    Why the hell does my skin need waking up? I didn't realise it went to sleep!

  • I would love to know what dermatologists use themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if it was simple soap and water with a basic moisturiser![/list:u]

    I've also been wondering about aftershave balms and moisturisers. Are they redundant products?

    Does anyone here bypass moisturiser and ASB and just use one or the other? Do we really need both? They're pretty much the same thing aren't they?

    Do we really need separate hand, face, body moisturisers? Apart from consistency, is there really that much difference between them? Anyone here use a general moisturiser for everything?

    I've used Men-U's Moisturiser Lift in the past and been quite pleased with it, and it seems to do double duty. I was put off by the price and also the ingredients list:

    Ingredients
    Water, Glycerin, Sodium Laureth Sulfate, PEG-7 Glyceryl Cocoate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Dimethicone Copolyol, Tea Tree Oil, Acrylates/C10-30 Alkyl Acrylate Crosspolymer, Peppermint Oil, Panthenol, Xanthum Gum, Propylene Glycol, Witch Hazel Extract, Sodium Lactate, Sodium PCA, Benzophenone-4, Aloe Barbadensis Extract, Disodium EDTA, Triethylene Glycol, Benzyl Alcohol, Sodium Hydroxide, Lactic Acid, Glycine, Fructose, Urea, Niacinamide, Inositol, Sodium Benzoate, Magnesium Nitrate, Methylchlorcisothiazolinone, Methylparaben, Magnesium Chloride, Sorbic Acid, Methylisothizolinone, CI 15985 (Yellow 6) CI 16035 (Red 40), CI 42090 (Blue 1).

    So what do you guys think?

    Sorry about the long, rambling post and many questions, but this has been playing on my mind for some time.

    Regards,

    John
 
As I have had poor skin for some time I have tried alot of things that were supposed to help... None did.

After DE shaving for about 4 months now my skin is better than ever, clear and with fewer spot.

I think the combination of the preparation for shaving, the shaving soap or cremes I use being pure and gunk free, a quick wash with clearasil post shave and a good cld rinse after have been the cause of my better skin. I do not used alum, post shave balms or moisturisers as they felt wrong on my skin.

I think alot of these products are designed for money extraction from an increasingly vain society.

I can only imagine what my grandad would say about that stuff...
 
I am of the opinion that the simpler you keep things, the less likely it is that you will hit any trouble.

I was my face with soap and water, sometimes just water. Face washes don't work for me. I recently bought some Real Shaving Company pre-shave wash and it burned my face - absolute crap.

I occasionally use some of Mrs.M's face scrub - but no more than once a week, and if I don't shave I might use some Nivea moisturiser.

My post shave routine is also simply. I finish shaving, rinse with warm water, rinse with cold water, and them apply an aftershave OR balm - never both. That's it.

I'm 42 in June, and most people who meet me for the first time think I'm mid-late thirties.

Just because there is loads of this stuff out there, it doesn't mean that you HAVE to use it. I have seen posts on other forums where gentlemen have had skin issues, and the first thing that they're advised to do, is to stop using all the fancy creams an potions, and go back to soap and water. Most of the time, there is an improvement within a matter of days.

Most of us on here have turned our backs on the marketing by the likes of P&G where shaving is concerned, and most of us have found it to our advantage, and I think that the same applies to general skin care.

Ian
 
Boozer said:
I think alot of these products are designed for money extraction from an increasingly vain society.

I can only imagine what my grandad would say about that stuff...

I agree with the first... and since I sound more like my dad every day, logically he must be sounding more like his dad every day.... mine says "a load of old bollocks".
 
Money, money, money, if all cosmetics where his and hers it would constitute a loss of hundreds of millions to these great claim making cosmetic companies.

I think we also fall for, or at least take into account some of this marketing spin when buying shave related necessities.

Face wash: I use a Shea butter soap.
Shave soap/cream: too long a list.
Moisturiser: Cade and I use this as a facial moisturiser as well.
Aftershave Splash: Speick because it doesn’t burn my face off or irritate me and it smells nice.
Face scrub: I have some but won’t be replacing it when it’s gone.

I’m 37 but look 55, but that’s due to the cigarettes and alcohol... :roll:
 
Great questions, John.

I heard once from a friend who had some insights from the cosmetics industry that (at least for some brands) mens and womens lines are same, e.g. the example given to me back then was Clinique (and more specifically their "M lotion" and "Moisturizing lotion" for men and women respectively). Same applies for cleansing (tonic) lotion, face scrub, etc.

To be honest, I do not know the mechanics behind all these, and I am not an expert regarding ingredients, etc. Getting more familiar with the latter would be highly beneficial, I believe (see our Henk here for example, how comfortable he is in knowing the pros and cons of each product when he goes through the ingredients list).

However I do not believe that you need anything more than common sense in using some descent stuff and getting real benefit from it. From my experience so far as a consumer, from what I have read, and having tried a variety of products for face and body, I would summarize as follows what I think is good to be guided by:

1. No cosmetics products will make your face 'better'. There is no magic. There can be some form of 'therapy' or 'assistance' to the skin itself in replenishing through time, through the use of good products. But this should come as a part of an overall strategy in taking care of your skin on a continuous basis.

2. Drink plenty of water. This is a very basic rule. Human body and skin needs that stuff desperately. There is no substitute to that. You may be using ten moisturizing creams every day and night, but if you do not drink water and just consume immense quantities of alcohol, coffee and soft drinks you're simply not helping your skin in any way.

3. Sleep well, sleep enough, sleep early. another very basic rule. Naturally not all people need or like to sleep early or for long hours, but if you like and can do this, it is highly beneficial.

4. Exercise and eat properly, avoid stress. All these help your body and skin. Whenever I eat chocolate on a daily basis for weeks, then my stomach area gets covered by small spots, almost invisible; they are nothing special, but show that my body is full of toxins. When I fast, they disappear.

5. Keep it simple, as Ian said. You do not need much.

(a) A good face wash or soap for face. Soaps that are for body can make your face skin too dry after you wash. Perhaps Henk could advise here more.
(b) A good, with moisturizing abilities, shaving cream or shaving soap.
(c) A nice after shave and after shave balm - but preferably use one each time. A good moisturizing cream can (in my humble opinion) be used instead of the ASB - any cream will do, there are no 'male' or 'female' moisturizers. After the shave your face needs protection, the cream is a must, do not leave your skin dry.
(d) Before going to bed at night it is also beneficial (if time is available) to wash face and put a good moisturizer as well. That way your skin can stay hydrated and recover for the next day. Tonic lotions help, you use them after the face wash and before applying the moisturizer - but they are not mandatory. If you are out in the field or walking around the city for some part of the day, wash your face when you come back home, then take a cotton pad, put some tonic lotion over it, pass this over your clean and dry face and neck - you'll see that the cotton pad turns brown. This is the effect of dust, pollution and atmosphere dirt to our skin.
(e) Now, all that mambo jumbo about 'night cremes' and 'serums' (that is $300+ moisturizer concentrates) is, frankly, marketing gimmicks. Yes, they are very good (some of them) but they can perhaps help 3-5% more your skin to restore itself. If you sleep well and drink plenty of water, any good cream will be fine to hydrate and protect. Note that I said 'good' cream - not any cream.

6. I believe all this "energising", "revitalisting", "awakening", "toning", "refreshing", "re-awakening", etc. are indeed marketing BS. A simple and good cream with a proven formula is all a company needs to provide us with. But there is competition around, and they have to survive, so they invent ways to make us buy new stuff.

7. The face scrub is good, but not mandatory. After some time your skin develops (e.g. in the nose) some black spots, very small ones. I do not know exactly what they are and have no time now to do a search, but if I understand correctly they are dead skin cells that can clog the pores. It's not a big deal, but if you remove them regularly (e.g. say every 6 months or year) by having a face treatment at a professional studio, then you (i) feel much better, refreshed and relaxed, and (ii) your skin is toned, refreshed and more healthy. For people that do pay attention to their health and overall well being, this is important. It may not be much or frequent, but it helps to relax and assist the skin replenish itself every once in a while. Everything has its purpose. The face or body scrubs follow in the same logic, allowing you to do that treatment once or twice a week.

8. I do not really think we really need separate hand, face, body moisturizers. Perhaps they have made them different due to the fact that the form in which you apply them has to be different, i.e. less or more fluidity, depending on face, body or hands application. Personally I do not use a general moisturizer for everything.

9. Last point, and to this many may disagree. I do not like supermaket-shelf products, I believe they are not so healthy. You can find much better stuff if you search 'outside the box'. You usually get what you pay for. Good cremes cost, and they are worth it. I admit, though I was positively surprised lately by two things: (a) Hearing our Henk here in TSR mentioning that the Nivea Sensitive ASB has overall a good mix of ingredients, and (b) buying and using cheap, supermarket-available (sometimes) products like Palmolive shave cream and Old Spice AS that proved to be very very good (as everyone knows). So there are indeed cheap and very good products.

I've rambled quite a bit, I guess, but hope it was not boring. Needless to say I stand to be corrected for any points that I have not substantiated sufficiently.
 
I'm shaving maybe 3-5 times a week just now. At least 90% of the time my aftershave routine is splashing on some alcoholic aftershave, Old Spice most of the time. Some periods using alum or balm to break it up, especially if the weather gets really cold.

I rarely wash my face, sometimes in the bath, and when I do I just use water, the bath water might have a little something in it.

I used to scrub my face with soap and make it feel better again with cream. I met my wife about 8 years and found out that her, along with many other people, just leave their faces alone. If it gets dirty they clean it with some hot water. It'll be fine.

I've got a tube of Lab facial scrub I use every few weeks at the sides of my nose and around my ears to remove dead skin - at this rate it may last longer than my Wade & Butcher wedge.

I don't like to use the same product on the same area of body for prolonged periods of time. My mum's been using Astral cream on her face daily for at least 30yrs, at this point her face can't cope without it.

Occasionally I stop washing my hair with shampoo and use hot water only, the first few weeks are a bit wild but my hair gets on fine without shampoo after a few weeks. I suspect this is the case with facial creams, if you always use them and then stop, your skin may panic for a bit.

I'm not really sure there is a need to to put cream on your face everyday and then soap it back off.
 
jhclare said:
Hi guys,

I wondered if I'm the only one that feels this way:

Basically I've been out of face wash and moisturiser for a while now, and have been using Johnson's Baby soap, which seems pretty mild. It is tallow based and contains Vaseline (I think). It's dirt cheap.

[...]

I have been thinking the following:

  • Why are there men's and women's ranges? Is male/female skin really that different or is it just marketing? I sometimes use my girlfriend's products and they seem much better quality than the men's equivalent.


  • Pure marketing. Started to actually get men to use cosmetics. Plus there are fragrance differences.

    [*]Do we really need face wash, face scrub, aftershave balm, aftershave splash, moisturiser, etc etc? Will soap do? Or maybe the Oil Cleansing Method?

    Need. No I don't think so, although using a moisturizer after treating your face with soap for 10-15 minutes is probably a good thing.

    Soap is not a moisturizer, and soaps with added active ingredients usually are not left on the skin long enough to have any significant effect.

    [*]Which products actually contain good quality skincare ingredients, and are reasonably priced, and don't rely on gimmicky marketing language to sell/make false claims about a product? Any with minimal unnecessary ingredients?

    I would guess NIvea sensitive ASB - or any of the other big brand unassuming products...


    [*]So many words used like "energising", "revitalisting", "awakening", "toning", "refreshing", "re-awakening", etc. Surely this is all marketing BS?

    You guessed it. Mostly.

    I've also been wondering about aftershave balms and moisturisers. Are they redundant products?

    You need one or the other, but not both. An ASB is basically a moisturizer with some added shaving actives (allantoin, bisabolol, etc.) that may or may not do anything significant. The moisturizing (i.e. adding some oils to your skin, in a package that promotes rapid inclusion in the skin and thus no greasy feeling) is by far the most important function of an ASB -- which is a light moisturizer. You could also use a face cream if you like such products on your skin.

    Do we really need separate hand, face, body moisturisers? Apart from consistency, is there really that much difference between them? Anyone here use a general moisturiser for everything?

    No, no, almost. Consistency and oil content are what (may) matter(s). A night cream can be heavier and greasier, since you are sleeping through most of the greasy phase anyway. More oils means 'better' working, but a greasy feeling that most people don't like.

    I've used Men-U's Moisturiser Lift in the past and been quite pleased with it, and it seems to do double duty. I was put off by the price and also the ingredients list:

    Ingredients
    Water, Glycerin, Sodium Laureth Sulfate, PEG-7 Glyceryl Cocoate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Dimethicone Copolyol, Tea Tree Oil, Acrylates/C10-30 Alkyl Acrylate Crosspolymer, Peppermint Oil, Panthenol, Xanthum Gum, Propylene Glycol, Witch Hazel Extract, Sodium Lactate, Sodium PCA, Benzophenone-4, Aloe Barbadensis Extract, Disodium EDTA, Triethylene Glycol, Benzyl Alcohol, Sodium Hydroxide, Lactic Acid, Glycine, Fructose, Urea, Niacinamide, Inositol, Sodium Benzoate, Magnesium Nitrate, Methylchlorcisothiazolinone, Methylparaben, Magnesium Chloride, Sorbic Acid, Methylisothizolinone, CI 15985 (Yellow 6) CI 16035 (Red 40), CI 42090 (Blue 1).

    So what do you guys think?

    Too many ingredients. Just do a simple ASB, like Nivea. Or mine ;-)

    Cheers

    Henkl
 
I'm very happy with my simple skin care routine.

Apply lots of hot water with a flannel. Hold flannel to face for a least a minute.

Shave

Splash an abundance of clean warm (or cold) water onto face to wash away all soap.

Then either splash on plenty of witch hazel or Old spice.

Thats it. Providing I thouroughly rinse off the soap my face feels fine.
 
Gents,

Thanks SO much for your insights. A very, very useful thread! :mrgreen: We're lucky to have so many knowledgeable people in one place.

I went to my local chemist yesterday and bought some Cetaphil cleansing bar and Cetaphil moisturising lotion (general purpose). I'm going to see how I get on with it. Apparently lots of Dermatologists recommend it overseas.

I'm curious how many people use (non-shave) soap on their face? I've been doing this recently as I'm out of face wash, and, true to the marketing of face wash products says, my face does feel dryer than if I use face wash, or hell, even Original Source shower gel.

Some folks over at ShaveMyFace swear that using face wash/detergents/SLS is bad for you, and that you should be using a natural hand made soap. Bars like Dove are frowned upon. Why is this? They do seem less drying than normal soap, and they're cheap.

As Henk said - I don't believe any soaps with added moisturisers really do anything, it all gets rinsed off at the end anyway!

Regards,

John
 
Face scrub - sometimes will use one when I'm not shaving. The face polishes from Neal's Yard leave my skin very smooth. A brush and blade against my face is enough.

Face wash - can't use supermarket products, extremely drying for me. Using Bulldog face wash now, fantastic scent (same as their ASB I think) and leaves skin less oily and with less blemishes. Tried using soap as a face wash - bad experience!

In terms of products just for men: according to Neal's Yard, 'Men’s skin is different to women’s; it’s naturally thicker, has more collagen, less hydration, yet more sebum (skin’s natural oils). Which is why men’s skin needs its own, dedicated skin care. NYR Men has been designed with organic herbs, extracts and oils to give men fantastic results, from head to toe.'

For me natural products with minimal and beneficial ingredients, without chemical filler, are best. And they generally smell much better. I really like: Burt's Bees, Bulldog, Nanny's Silly Soap and Purely Skincare to name just a few. All products that make a real difference, smell great and are reasonably priced.

However, I feel that drinking water and getting enough sleep is actually more important than using all these products.
 
jhclare said:
I'm curious how many people use (non-shave) soap on their face?

Some folks over at ShaveMyFace swear that using face wash/detergents/SLS is bad for you, and that you should be using a natural hand made soap. Bars like Dove are frowned upon. Why is this? They do seem less drying than normal soap, and they're cheap.

Not me. If for whatever reason (i.e. in the absence of a face bar or gel) I am forced to use a normal/standard soap, I know that right after that I do have to use a moisturizer. If I don't, in a couple of hours my face already starts 'pulling' and feels dry. And mind you, I have mixed (combination) skin type.

jhclare said:
Some folks over at ShaveMyFace swear that using face wash/detergents/SLS is bad for you, and that you should be using a natural hand made soap. Bars like Dove are frowned upon. Why is this? They do seem less drying than normal soap, and they're cheap.

Personal opinion: a good face soap or gel is always to be preferred. Dove, etc. (supermarket stuff) are to be avoided at best. They do provide moisturizing but that doesn't necessarily mean they are good products (ingredients-wise). The fact that they are cheap is another reason to avoid them. Generally we get what we pay for.
 
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