Things are starting to get a little crazy...

Mikes1992 said:
I can imagine shops will be full today because that's the only place people are technically allowed to go now
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That is bound to change but the trouble is that the larger supermarkets that do online shopping and home delivery don't have enough driver's and therefore not enough time slots.
I will not be catching a bus into my nearest town to go shopping (I am not allowed to drive anymore because of prescribed medications) so I will have to go to the local shop and see what is on offer there, no fresh produce I'm sure! :) the only advantage is there is only a few people in the shop at any one time. P.
 
Blademonkey said:
How many of you are wearing face masks when you go into high populated areas like public transport and supermarkets? Ive noticed on the tv showing huge crowds of people together on trains, busses and supermarkets and hardly anyone was protecting themselves or other people by wearing a mask ect....
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Wearing a mask won't help you unless you have a full PPE ensemble and decontamination protocol when you return home. In fact a mask is likely to do more harm than good as it will encourage you to touch your face to futz with it, will give a false sense of security and lastly people are re-using them which is a really bad idea.

Best advice is what's come from the government.
 
chris.hale said:
Wearing a mask won't help you unless you have a full PPE ensemble and decontamination protocol when you return home. In fact a mask is likely to do more harm than good as it will encourage you to touch your face to futz with it, will give a false sense of security and lastly people are re-using them which is a really bad idea.

Best advice is what's come from the government.
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I tend to agree with you so am not putting myself in a situation where I am surrounded by hordes of people, if I had to expose myself to a train or bus full of people (scheduled vets visit) I would be wearing full face protection along with latex gloves that would be disposed of when I get home followed by a full decontamination procedure.
Overkill, I don't think so, will I look like a tit, quite possibly but I will not be putting myself or anyone else at risk. P.
 
Blademonkey said:
That is bound to change but the trouble is that the larger supermarkets that do online shopping and home delivery don't have enough driver's and therefore not enough time slots.
I will not be catching a bus into my nearest town to go shopping (I am not allowed to drive anymore because of prescribed medications) so I will have to go to the local shop and see what is on offer there, no fresh produce I'm sure! :) the only advantage is there is only a few people in the shop at any one time. P.
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chris.hale said:
Wearing a mask won't help you unless you have a full PPE ensemble and decontamination protocol when you return home. In fact a mask is likely to do more harm than good as it will encourage you to touch your face to futz with it, will give a false sense of security and lastly people are re-using them which is a really bad idea.

Best advice is what's come from the government.
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Seriously? Funny how all the countries that have followed WHO advice at least to a considerable extent (unlike our own) have got comparatively low death rates and are beginning to recover. They have taken steps early and been proactive; so I'm inclined to trust their interpretation of the science. And they all encourage masks - some such as Singapore got the army in to pack up packages of masks and deliver them to every household. In China at the moment you cannot go into a shop without a mask. I appreciate there needs to be education as to how best to use them and for how long. At the end of the day, if an infected person coughs in my direction or over my food, I'd be much happier if they were wearing a mask. That also applies to health and care workers.
 
There is quite a debate amongst professionals at the moment vis-vis masks, with strong arguments on both sides.

A current paper published in Lancet argues that everyone should wear a mask:
Evidence that face masks can provide effective protection against respiratory infections in the community is scarce, as acknowledged in recommendations from the UK and Germany. However, face masks are widely used by medical workers as part of droplet precautions when caring for patients with respiratory infections. It would be reasonable to suggest vulnerable individuals avoid crowded areas and use surgical face masks rationally when exposed to high-risk areas. As evidence suggests COVID-19 could be transmitted before symptom onset, community transmission might be reduced if everyone, including people who have been infected but are asymptomatic and contagious, wear face masks.
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Wearing a mask helps with protecting oneself but even more importantly helps to protect others. One might be carrying and spreading the disease without knowing it. We all release fine droplets when we speak, sneeze or cough. Masks prevent one's droplets from spreading out.

The viruses are quite small and could slip through the pores of a mask. But the droplets they are carried with are larger and are less likely to come through. There are also suggestions that one virus alone is less likely to do harm and that a significant load of viruses is required to start the disease.

There are some cultural consideration that support the call for everyone to wear a mask:
The contrast between face mask use as hygienic practice (ie, in many Asian countries) or as something only people who are unwell do (ie, in European and North American countries) has induced stigmatisation and racial aggravations, for which further public education is needed. One advantage of universal use of face masks is that it prevents discrimination of individuals who wear masks when unwell because everybody is wearing a mask.
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There is currently a shortage of professional masks and those that are still available are needed in our hospitals.

But one can also use a scarf, sew oneself a mask or make one's own masks from household items. None will be as good as a professional masks but all will help to keep the number of cases down.

Viruses do not like heat. Soap breaks them apart. One can clean a mask by heating it in an oven at 70°C (160°F) or by washing it with soap.
 
Blademonkey said:
I tend to agree with you so am not putting myself in a situation where I am surrounded by hordes of people, if I had to expose myself to a train or bus full of people (scheduled vets visit) I would be wearing full face protection along with latex gloves that would be disposed of when I get home followed by a full decontamination procedure.
Overkill, I don't think so, will I look like a tit, quite possibly but I will not be putting myself or anyone else at risk. P.
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I don't understand the obsession here with latex gloves. They offer no more protection than making sure you wash hands before touching mucus membranes. If you touch anything with the virus on it and then touch a mucus membrane without washing your hands, whether gloved or not, you risk infection. I'll be spending my money on masks. Just wish our government would spend money on the same for our health workers.
 
SoapAlchemist said:
I don't understand the obsession here with latex gloves. They offer no more protection than making sure you wash hands before touching mucus membranes. If you touch anything with the virus on it and then touch a mucus membrane without washing your hands, whether gloved or not, you risk infection. I'll be spending my money on masks. Just wish our government would spend money on the same for our health workers.
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When I get off the bus or train I will remove my disposable gloves and bin them, if I was able to get hold of hand sanitiser then I would not need the gloves! I can wash my hands at home as much as I like but when I get off the bus or train I cannot!
It's not an obsession with latex gloves it's because of all the fuckwits that brought as much hand sanitiser as they could leaving none on the shelves. P.
 
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Missoni said:
There is quite a debate amongst professionals at the moment vis-vis masks, with strong arguments on both sides.

A current paper published in Lancet argues that everyone should wear a mask:

Wearing a mask helps with protecting oneself but even more importantly helps to protect others. One might be carrying and spreading the disease without knowing it. We all release fine droplets when we speak, sneeze or cough. Masks prevent one's droplets from spreading out.

The viruses are quite small and could slip through the pores of a mask. But the droplets they are carried with are larger and are less likely to come through. There are also suggestions that one virus alone is less likely to do harm and that a significant load of viruses is required to start the disease.

There are some cultural consideration that support the call for everyone to wear a mask:

There is currently a shortage of professional masks and those that are still available are needed in our hospitals.

But one can also use a scarf, sew oneself a mask or make one's own masks from household items. None will be as good as a professional masks but all will help to keep the number of cases down.

Viruses do not like heat. Soap breaks them apart. One can clean a mask by heating it in an oven at 70°C (160°F) or by washing it with soap.
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3M five layer vacuum cleaner bag's have been proven to be a good material to make a home made mask and nearly as affective as as the proper masks, you can double up making a ten layer mask from them which increases their effectiveness by 14% bringing them in line with the medical masks.
I have played with this idea using in a twin filter respirator and it is quite easy to breathe through and the filters are easily replaceable. P.
 
I wonder if I should wear a mask, I work in Asda and today there's people walking around coughing. I'm extremely worried because my partner works in a care home, I might ask the manager for advice because I really don't want to pass it onto her and then she goes to work and potentially infects a care home with around 50-60 vulnerable people. Surely this lockdown is to prevent links to the vulnerable and I'm a link to 50-60 elderly people and I'm working in a high risk job. I feel sick with worry atm
 
Blademonkey said:
3M five layer vacuum cleaner bag's have been proven to be a good material to make a home made mask and nearly as affective as as the proper masks, you can double up making a ten layer mask from them which increases their effectiveness by 14% bringing them in line with the medical masks.
I have played with this idea using in a twin filter respirator and it is quite easy to breathe through and the filters are easily replaceable. P.
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I suspect when we come through the worst of this pandemic, mask wearing will become much more common. I do not have masks, but I will learn from this experience and purchase some in due course.
 
SoapAlchemist said:
Seriously? Funny how all the countries that have followed WHO advice at least to a considerable extent (unlike our own) have got comparatively low death rates and are beginning to recover. They have taken steps early and been proactive; so I'm inclined to trust their interpretation of the science. And they all encourage masks - some such as Singapore got the army in to pack up packages of masks and deliver them to every household. In China at the moment you cannot go into a shop without a mask. I appreciate there needs to be education as to how best to use them and for how long. At the end of the day, if an infected person coughs in my direction or over my food, I'd be much happier if they were wearing a mask. That also applies to health and care workers.
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I also reckon that if everybody wore masks they wouldn't actually need to stop the virus getting in as most of the spread would be stopped at the source of the infected person wearing a mask. I hope our government follows in the footsteps of South korea, drive through testing free to use by anybody. The fact that people are self isolating for what could potentially just be hay fever or a cold is stupid. Most people are ignoring the advice because they simply don't know
 
Nobody wearing a mask is going to keep it on when they sneeze, so (that's) the infected wearing them being of limited use. If it's for your own protection you also need goggles as the eyes are a way in, and if you're going down that route everything you've had exposed to the air needs to be washed / disposed of as soon as you get through the door. Masks are also a single use item and must not be re-used. There's a reason why the clinicians at work are wearing proper respirators, goggles, hooded coveralls, shoe covers and gloves with the lot going into clinical waste as soon as they've moved away from the patient. But hey, if you want to wear a mask and it makes you feel better go ahead.

Much easier to just stay at home and avoid people.
 
Mikes1992 said:
I wonder if I should wear a mask, I work in Asda and today there's people walking around coughing. I'm extremely worried because my partner works in a care home, I might ask the manager for advice because I really don't want to pass it onto her and then she goes to work and potentially infects a care home with around 50-60 vulnerable people. Surely this lockdown is to prevent links to the vulnerable and I'm a link to 50-60 elderly people and I'm working in a high risk job. I feel sick with worry atm
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If people are coughing in your workplace I would absolutely wear a mask, you need to protect yourself.
There will come a time where everyone entering a supermarket will be scanned with a digital thermometer and if found to have a temperature will be turned away, should be happening now if you ask me!
Stay safe.
P.
 
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