The ugly side to importing and selling 'artisan' soap
- Thread starter Burgundy
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There are if the oil would be unsafe above a certain concentration. With the artisans no one is checking because they are so small as to be overlooked. Maggard's here in Michigan is one such soap. Many people complain of significant irritation from them, but they are Artisan soaps so they have thus far not caught the attention of the USDA.soapalchemist said:
@Griffo, you are correct that natural soaps, as agricultural products, are not required to provide a complete ingredient list (almost all still do because no one will buy if they don't know what's in it.)
This is about compliance with the current laws of the European Union and not the safety of the products. Almost all products of the United States will meet or exceed what is required by EU law, but we don't know which, if any, wouldn't because they are not subjected to testing.
FYI: Mamma Bear uses Brambleberry melt and pour shaving soap base and scents and colors it. If you want to save your money, you can purchase the base yourself and make your own scented soaps. This is a case in point re: @Griffo's comment on labeling. I suspect the EU world require her to disclose where she gets her soap base, but US law doesn't require it.
OP
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- #54
With respect, it is difficult to reason with someone who wants to justify unlawful activities. I suppose that is the purpose of the criminal justice system. Whether or not you agree with EU laws, you are still bound by them. Legitimate means of protest against laws do exist; you live in a democracy that is underpinned by the rule of law. These would include influencing policy through the democratic process; for example, lobbying your MEP.Holyzeus said:
I expected flak when I lobbed the grenade.Nishy said:
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I regularly break the law, and when I am caught, I accept the consequences.Burgundy said:
Same with those vendors; if regulation authorities investigate, and find that vendors break the law, there probably will be consequences. That's a business risk that they are willing to take, or not.
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axelk said:
Not allowed by whom? Extradition! Oh! that doesn't work west to east across the Atlantic so they are pretty much immune, are they not?
axelk said:
This has to be bulldust! It's the Land of the Free and they can sell to whomever wants to buy. I want to buy for an American friend but I can't because I'm European???
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Burgundy, may I respectfully request that you clarify your motives? I can't think it's just that it's unlawful for an EU vendor to sell a US product, unless you are the one person in the UK that's never driven above 70 on a motorway for example. Even if you are that person, it's the vendors that are assuming the (probably very small) risk, so why worry? Just don't buy it yourself.
If what you're saying is that US soap makers can make their soap more cheaply and undercut people in the UK because they don't have to pay for EU certification, then that only holds water if people choose their soap based on price, not performance. Having said that most of the US soaps aren't cheap because the vendor has to pass the shipping and possibly import costs onto the customer. In that respect the majority of UK soaps are actually cheaper.
You've mentioned a couple of times about people missing the point, please could you clarify what your point is?
If what you're saying is that US soap makers can make their soap more cheaply and undercut people in the UK because they don't have to pay for EU certification, then that only holds water if people choose their soap based on price, not performance. Having said that most of the US soaps aren't cheap because the vendor has to pass the shipping and possibly import costs onto the customer. In that respect the majority of UK soaps are actually cheaper.
You've mentioned a couple of times about people missing the point, please could you clarify what your point is?
Bechet45 said:
You're just being difficult now. They are not allowed to put uncertified products on the EU market.
See below official answer from Europe Direct
"Therefore, the conclusion of this analysis is that companies selling cosmetic products through Internet websites established outside the EU and directly targeting EU consumers need:
- to appoint a responsible person in the European Union;
- to follow the legal requirements of the Cosmetics Regulation.
It has to be noted, however, that the implementation of this position by Member States of the EU could be difficult. We are working with national competent authorities to find solutions to this problem."
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I can guarantee the only consequence to cracking down on US vendors is they will stop selling to Europe and you will have to travel here to buy them. American soap makers aren't breaking any laws. It is perfectly legal here to take your order online and sell soap to you. If the EU world prefer that not to happen, it will have to block your access to their websites.
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As a member of the EU, I'm going to continue being all Continental about this. Let Brussels make as many rules as they like and then everyone except the Brits ignore the ones they don't like. I don't need Nanny State Laws to protect me from shaving soap - or the un-pasteurised cheese I'm about to eat with uncertificated Swedish crisp bread direct from Sweden, taken with some EU grapes I'll have to wash to get rid of the sprayed on chemicals, washed down with some un-certificated Darjeeling tea direct from India.
We argue about EU regulated shaving soap and the de-regulated Bankers are still walking free. Bastards!
We argue about EU regulated shaving soap and the de-regulated Bankers are still walking free. Bastards!
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Bechet45 said:
This is my point.
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... until the first person falls foul of the latest scent from 'How to Grow a Tumour' through some ingredient that is not listed and not picked up through certification. Then you'll be crying ... Yeah! Tears of acid! Yeah! Then you'll be thankful for the EU Product Police running in like the clean-up squad from Monsters Inc. Yeah! You will 
OP
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- #63
My intentions are to raise awareness throughout the supply chain of unlawful business and injustices done to consumer and producer alike. I am a consumer and forum member - as evidenced by the many hundreds of posts - and have no commercial interests in this discussion. I am not Javert. Not am I Jean Valjean. Even if your speeding analogy were not false, claiming hypocrisy is not a valid form of defence.chris.hale said:
I have not aimed my posts at US soapmakers. I have aimed them at non-compliant distributors.
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Having read all the posts the OP comes across as rather smug and little bit sad. The kind of person who'll rat out another person because they disagree with his point of view (and I imagine he has reported said vendors).
So big deal the soaps ain't complaint. Am I going to stop buying them? No. The OP seems to want to shut down every single UK vendor who's selling US Artisan soaps. He's basically being the State Police. Telling us - the buyers - what we can and cannot buy. Sorry that doesn't wash. So the regulations are a pain, but the simple fact is there are so few EU-regulated 'artisans' around because of said-regs. So why should we have the marketed dictated to us like the OP wants.
So big deal the soaps ain't complaint. Am I going to stop buying them? No. The OP seems to want to shut down every single UK vendor who's selling US Artisan soaps. He's basically being the State Police. Telling us - the buyers - what we can and cannot buy. Sorry that doesn't wash. So the regulations are a pain, but the simple fact is there are so few EU-regulated 'artisans' around because of said-regs. So why should we have the marketed dictated to us like the OP wants.