Some teething troubles

H

HairyMan

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59
Well, after lurking here for a while and watching all the usual youtube videos I decided to take the plunge and give it a go.

My set up (based on previous recommendations on here):

Edwin Jagger DE89 (the shiney one)
Derby blades (came with it)
Vulfix 404 mixed badger/boar brush
Palmolive cream

plus
a rice bowl for making froth
a styptic pencil (wise purchase :blush:)

I am about a week in now and things are starting to come together. First few goes were a bit ragged and sore but I am starting to get reasonable results now.

I realised that my problem was (altogether now): TOO MUCH PRESSURE!

I made a concious effort one day to focus on trying to keep as light a touch as possible and then things improved rapidly. Still a long way to go but not too bad a start.

My current problem though is with generating lather with the 404 - I'm not getting much and what there is stuck in the bristles. Certainly doesn't look like the videos.

Before the 404 I bought a really cheap (60p!) own-brand brush from Wilkinsons, as an experiment. Not sure what it is made from (porcupine and cactus mix by the feel of it) but I was whipping up lots of meringue-like lather with it.

Current approach:
Rinse the 404 under the tap before leaving it to soak while I shower.
Almond sized blob of cream in the bowl
Quick shake of the brush
Keep adding water as I go along.

Unless I scrape the brush against the side of the bowl the lather just seems to get trapped within the brush - is this ok? Certainly makes it difficult to judge how the mix is going. The resulting lather doesn't seem very slick but seems to do an OK-ish job.

Am I doing anything wrong? Should I add more water up-front? Wetter brush?

Another new guy question:
Should I stick with the current blades and soap or experiment with something else?
I've seen lots of messages about trying different blades but I am not sure when to start on that. Suggestions for which to try next would be useful too.

Help gratefully received!
 
Hi.

Bowl lathering is, as far as I am concerned one of the hardest ways to generate a decent lather. Just my opinion, but I have always found it quite problematic.

Whilst learning to lather I think it is much easier to lather in the palm of your hand, using the palm of your hand as a bowl. This gives you much more feel of the consistency of the lather, and as your hand is not smooth I think it also helps move the bristles around more to produce a better lather.

So, the first thing I would try is lathering in your hand rather than in a bowl.


As for blades, Derbys are generally regarded as being a mild blade, i.e. not very sharp. If you have a tough beard this may encourage you to work the razor a bit harder than is ideal in order to get the blade to cut, the result of this is more irritation and sore patches. A sharper blade may be the answer.

The Astra Superior Platinum is a good blade to try, and so is the Gillette 7 o'clock green. Both of these are good blades and smooth so should work a lot better.

Some people recommend sticking to one blade until you have learnt your technique, but I was too impatient for that and tried various blades after about a week to see which I preferred. I settled on the Gillette 7 o'clock Sharpedge (yellow) quite ealy on, but a lot of people suggest these are too sharp for a beginner.

I would be inclined to try a selection pack of blades with some good blades in it, but others may well disagree.

For now, I would keep everything else the same until your technique is much improved. Sounds like you are doing quite well so far.
 
The 404 Bodger is a very good face (or palm as per LtB's post) latherer. It's my daily brush. I've never tried it in a bowl, but then I much prefer face lathering. If you use enough product you'll get plenty lather for 3 passes + touch-ups that way.
 
Lose the beard said:
Hi.

Bowl lathering is, as far as I am concerned one of the hardest ways to generate a decent lather. Just my opinion, but I have always found it quite problematic.

Whilst learning to lather I think it is much easier to lather in the palm of your hand, using the palm of your hand as a bowl. This gives you much more feel of the consistency of the lather, and as your hand is not smooth I think it also helps move the bristles around more to produce a better lather.

So, the first thing I would try is lathering in your hand rather than in a bowl.


As for blades, Derbys are generally regarded as being a mild blade, i.e. not very sharp. If you have a tough beard this may encourage you to work the razor a bit harder than is ideal in order to get the blade to cut, the result of this is more irritation and sore patches. A sharper blade may be the answer.

The Astra Superior Platinum is a good blade to try, and so is the Gillette 7 o'clock green. Both of these are good blades and smooth so should work a lot better.

Some people recommend sticking to one blade until you have learnt your technique, but I was too impatient for that and tried various blades after about a week to see which I preferred. I settled on the Gillette 7 o'clock Sharpedge (yellow) quite ealy on, but a lot of people suggest these are too sharp for a beginner.

I would be inclined to try a selection pack of blades with some good blades in it, but others may well disagree.

For now, I would keep everything else the same until your technique is much improved. Sounds like you are doing quite well so far.
Click to expand...

Will give the "hand lathering" a go - can't imagine what sort of mess that is going to make!

Do you think I should switch blades now or use a few more of the current ones?
 
Hi, if you find the hand lathering works for you then great, otherwise I find face lathering much easier. As you already have a rough surface to work on then it's simply a matter of getting the right amount of product plus water. I find that I usually add water to the brush as I tend to put it on too dry, but this works fine for me.

As for blades I like the Personna that you get from Tesco, Asda etc. Sharp but not too unforgiving. They're also good value.
 
I tend to swirl around the puck of soap in the bowl ten to fifteen times then face lather. Biggest mistake I made wioth soaps was not swirling enough with the right amount of water (which varies between soaps and brushes). I think I was trying to avoid wasting too much soap in the early days.
I tend to paint back and forth and up and down on my face rather than swirl but that's just a personal preference. As the soap from the brush starts to thin I squeeze from the bottom of the brush, forcing the soap and some water down to the tips. If necessary I do a tiny dip of the tip of the brush in hot water after that and lather the face some more. Works really well for me.
 
Greetings

I would double the amount of cream you are using, I think the old term of an Almond sized piece, is perhaps enough if you live in the Scottish Highlands or some other place that has water as soft as silk but most other places I think you need more; where I live in East Anglia where the water is hard I find I need a lot more.

Another point is that the lack of density of the bristles in the ultra cheap boar brushes like the Wilkies ones means they fill up with lather easier and do not retain much of it in the brush knot, they will give it all up easier although there will be less of it. With a better brush the brush itself does 'eat' (retain) some of the lather so you need to 'feed' it more, another reason to use more cream.

I do feel by the way that you would have a job to better the Vulfix 404 Mixed as a first brush, in fact you would't go far wrong if it was your only brush. I would agree about the Derby blades you can shave with them but that's about it.

Regards
Dick
 
More cream definitely - I'm from the same county as Dick, and our water is very hard - if yours is on the hard side of medium, you'll need to use more of the cream - to continue the nut analogy, a large walnut is a better amount to aim for.
 
Hi HairyMan-

I've been into this lark for about 18 months now. Made a lot of mistakes but forums like this have been very helpful- at great pain to my wallet though !!! ;))

I seem to have at least 2 lifetimes of blades collected. PM me your address and I'll send you a few different ones for you to try. The best place (imho) for the Derby's is the bin. Think you may be surprised what you'll achieve with a better blade.
 
Thanks for the tips and suggestions everyone.

Have had another look at the tutorials and looked at the hand/face lathering.

Was a bit pushed for time today so was going to switch back to the old twin-blade and nivea sensitive gel. Weird, but I actually felt a little guilty!

On a whim, I thought I would have a quick play at the land lathering before getting on with shaving. Brush got a brief soaking, a shake dry and then a small squirt of cream. A quick bit of lathering seemed to be working so I thought I would just have a go at face lathering. Surprisingly good results - not perfect but good enough to go ahead and shave. Unfortunately and rather dishearteningly, the results from a single pass of the bargain-basement Tesco own-brand cartridge produced far better results than I had been getting. :mad:

Still early days but ...

I think I am going to have to give the face lathering a proper go.

The 404 seemed a lot better for only a brief soak. It is usually surprisingly soft, which I find a bit off-putting (like receiving a really limp handshake)

Tomorrow, going to have another go with the bowl but with more cream and a shorter soak.

Over the weekend, I think I am going to have to lock myself in the bathroom and do a couple of "practice lathers". Will have to wait until the family are out though - can't imagine how much eye-rolling I would get from my wife if I told I was off to practice making lather.
 
I'm not sure that a shorter soak is necessary if it makes the process more difficult, having said that I've not used that particular brush (except that I have the handle from one which was re-knotted), so it may be that too much soaking causes the knot to go floppy.
 
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