Keto Help!?

BillTse

BillTse

Messages
89
Hi guys.
I'm interested in trying a ketogenic diet.
I understand my carb limit would be 20 grammes.
(To become & stay ketogenic)
Using the macro calculator on redditt, these are my macros:
Protein 98
Carbs 22
Fat 108
I haz a questions.
Would the carbs in fats count towards my carb limit?
I.e. carbs in cheese - brie, cheddar.
Would the carbs in meats count towards my carb limit?
I.e. Gammon ham, chicken breast.
Do these macros sound realistic?

After 3 days of banging my head against the internet wall:
Yes I understand carbs/net carbs.
Yes i understand carb limit/ketogenesis.
No I dont want MCT oil or to eat solid blocks of butter. Or lard.
Or powdered supplements. Just real foods.
Being a simple guy of limited cognitive abilities I'd like a few simple pointers!I
Can ya helps me!?
 
A good decade ago, I took to the Paleo Diet to address some health issues (heartburn, predominantly ... and a complete inability to get off PPIs*) and while ketogenesis was considered a good thing, most folks erred on the side of metabolic flexibility and so the "Paleo Standard" if you like was to have "some carbs" and not necessarily go full keto. Ketosis is quite addictive when it happens.

Long story short, I found it VERY easy to drop into ketosis without thinking and certainly without counting. I ate no bread, no rice, no potatoes, didn't switch to sweet potatoes. I ate fish and meat with vegetables. I did use butter, dripping and goose fat; fatty cuts preferred and fatty fish like salmon and mackerel. I also didn't eat dairy for a good few weeks and that actually might be the key as dairy, while fatty, does have the carbs. I'd say "yes" the carbs in dairy and meat count. Carbs is carbs is carbs.

I'll repeat what I said just above: I found it VERY easy to drop into ketosis without thinking and certainly without counting. My brain doesn't "do" counting and I certainly can't cook meals constrained by counting. I applaud your adherence to real food. Do note that lean meats make it very hard to reach the energy required from fat without some kind extra, so have some butter, dripping and so on to add into your meals. While you get used to ketosis, you don't want lethargy making everything miserable.

* It took about 3 days of Paleo for me to be able to give up a decade-long habit of PPIs. Result! I've been off them since.
 
I did LCHF/ full Keto for a few years - and still try to stick to low carb - after going full moon-face and putting on a few stone when prescribed steroids and other pills due to ongoing health issues. Lost a sh*t load of weight and came off all the meds. Pics attached of me and the legend that is Richie Ramone - purely for the reason that these were taken just nine months apart in 2016 when I started, and you can see the difference :oops:

12657942_10153970087311522_6041297043560318246_o.jpg15392828_10154857851666522_3952928631493557553_o.jpg

The simple answer is yes - they count. But 20 a day is quite easy once you discard any food heavy on carbs. I used Diet Doctor's guidelines - never paid for membership, just used some recipes and common sense. https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/keto/foods
Get ready for keto-flu (headaches from initial withdrawl) which can be alleviated quickly with a cup of a bouilon like this: https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/255956181 which is about a gram of carbs in a mug.

Simply put, the purer the meat, the less carby it is. Bacon, good ham, chicken - all zero. But check things like sausages and processed meats as the additives can screw you over. Rusk, potato starch etc - trust me, you think you're being good and suddenly your sausage is 5 grams instead of 0.5! Cheese is brilliant, unless you're partial to a Wensleydale with Cranberry bits in it! If you like a pint, ditch it and moved to spirits or white wine.
I never counted macros, fats or proteins. I just watched the carbs and ate until I was full. Good luck, and from experience I can say my body soon adjusted to no carbs, but beware if you do consume them - I felt bloated, lethargic and downright sick if I was left with no alternative but to consume carb-heavy food or drink!
 
One side effect of having a shitty boss and too much work, coupled with the lockdowns, is that I've had limited time to eat well or exercise for ages. I put on 5kg (11lb), blood pressure went up as did resting pulse. My 'diet of convenience' involved way too much cappuccino, cereal with milk, cheese and biscuits, and Friday night became kebab and chips night as I was too tired to cook anything.
I started following a 'bariatric pre-op' diet sheet that was prescribed to a friend before surgery. It clearly states not to follow it for more than a couple of weeks, but it has fairly low fat and low carbs (100g/d), and in 2 weeks I have lost the 5kg and feel a lot better (despite the ongoing work situation). I now need to relax it a bit I think, but without going right back to high carbs. I think the secret is getting into better eating habits. As such I've bookmarked this thread.
 
Due to the pandemic and the move for full time wfh I stopped moving as much, are way too many things I shouldn't, and by May this year I was told my blood sugar was on the verge of diabetes.
I moved to a 50g carbs a day way of life as the logical response.
My blood sugar is now back to normal, I lost 10kg and the readings of all other parameters are normal too.
So go ahead, not sure 20g is to my liking but 50g is not too hard to follow.
 
As an aside, enjoy some reading on resistant starch, which is phenomenally good for your gut ... and keto-friendly if done right! I am a firm believer that a happy gut is the key to success in other health areas. Starch (carb) on keto? Whaaaaat? https://ketogenicinfo.com/is-resistant-starch-keto-friendly/#h-is-resistant-starch-keto

Remember, I didn't specifically chase ketosis but found myself there often on a strict Paleo diet, one of the things I brought back in once I'd got to where I wanted to be was resistant starch. For me (a home cook who enjoys real food and not packet food), it was cooked and refridgerated baked potatoes and rice. I notice the article does say that neither are keto-friendly and explains why ... and gives more ideal sources. It was fine for me where I was with the process, though and perhaps suitable in certain quantities if you find that "some" is okay for you to still reach your goals.
 
My BMI and weight have been okay forever but in the last 20 years I had developed a "beer gut" and my HA1c was 6.0 and higher or prediabetic. I had heard two podcasts on two different public radio stations with Dr. Jason Fung, a Canadian nephrologist who deals with diabetics. His basic message is one of intermittent fasting and low carb. I stopped drinking alcohol, though liquors are supposedly no carb, but they are calories. I also stopped eating all grains and starchy foods such as potatoes, rice, noodles, etc. There is no carb counting involved. I just eat a lot of protein, fat and non starchy vegetables.

The intermittent fasting part leads one into ketosis by fasting for 15 to 16 hours a day. Dr. Eric Westman, Duke Medical Center physician and author of End Your Carb Confusion likes to call it "timed eating" instead of intermittent fasting, meaning you eat within a 7 to 8 hour time period. Doing these two things I dropped around 30 pounds and lowered my BMI to 21.5 and I felt and looked trim, but my blood sugar didn't budge, because I was drinking alcohol and eating desserts at holiday and birthday parties. Once I stopped the cheating, three months later my HA1C was a normal 5.4.

Don't count, just don't eat sugar and starch and if you really want a boost and something you can keep up the rest of your life, try the intermittent fasting. There's lots of websites, articles, podcasts, videos and books on the subject. Dr. Westman's book breaks it down into three stages of how to eat low carb and as you meet your goals you move up to the next where you can have more of certain foods.

To the original poster, meat and fat do not have carbs, but milk does have some carbs, so you could drink only heavy cream with less than 1 gram of carbohydrate and zero of sugar. Most cheeses are carb free. I eat a lot of cheese. Nuts are good in small amounts except for cashews and pistachios because of their carb levels.

I used the same site that Dr. Jason Fung referred to: dietdoctor.com and referred to using the free advice and the Dr. Westman End Your Carb Confusion book and charts. Dr. Westman and other doctors dealing with this topic say to steer away from thinking of net carbs. They consider even fiber as the carb. Trying to eat potatoes by cooking them and putting them in the refrigerator before you eat them to get resistant starch is not going to help very much. Just stop the starch, stop the potatoes and bread.

One story in Dr. Westman's book was of a woman who was over weight and not feeling great so she became a marathon runner and ran a lot every day. She never was able to lose weight, until she did the intermittent fasting and low carb diet. She even was able to cut down on the exercise.
 
Hmm that's very interesting. By cutting back on carbs I've managed to quickly lose a bit of weight and feel better. Not sure how long I can keep it off for, I'll need to readjust my preferences and habits. In my case I'm not trying to do keto per se, just trying to lose weight and boost energy levels and break the cycle of stress and comfort eating. However I have now been told I've got a higher level of cholesterol and LDL than they would like, so I'm not sure about the high fat thing. I will probably have to cut out a lot of milk and cheese too, and bacon, replaced by avocado and oily fish. This is the first time in many decades I've tried to keep an eye on what I eat.
 
hotmetal said:
Hmm that's very interesting. By cutting back on carbs I've managed to quickly lose a bit of weight and feel better. Not sure how long I can keep it off for, I'll need to readjust my preferences and habits. In my case I'm not trying to do keto per se, just trying to lose weight and boost energy levels and break the cycle of stress and comfort eating. However I have now been told I've got a higher level of cholesterol and LDL than they would like, so I'm not sure about the high fat thing. I will probably have to cut out a lot of milk and cheese too, and bacon, replaced by avocado and oily fish. This is the first time in many decades I've tried to keep an eye on what I eat.
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Here's another interesting thing, fat is not the enemy. We need fat, we need cholesterol and blood levels of cholesterol do not correlate with fat eaten. Sugar is the enemy and sugar causes the body to make the extra cholesterol you worry about. Exercise can cut the cholesterol readings, but limiting carbs can dramatically do so. Read more recent scientific articles and you will see this is so.
 
My progress so far:
Down 6 kg. At times hard going.
Using OMAD & my current macros are:
Protein 126g, Carbs 20g, Fat 151g.

Observations:
1) Thank God for low carb tortillas.
2) Konjac noodles are The Work of The Devil.
 
Not getting off track on the Keto but iv lost 3 stone in 3 months doing a 16 hour fasting diet.
Iv found this for me to be the easiest.
Crisps were a huge downfall of mine.
Iv cut them out and now i very rarely eat bread, potatoes, rice or any carbs really.
I do eat them at times i don’t want a diet to be strict to the extent i’m moody & starving. But for me the fasting has been superb
 
Last edited:
BillTse said:
My progress so far:
Down 6 kg. At times hard going.
Using OMAD & my current macros are:
Protein 126g, Carbs 20g, Fat 151g.

Observations:
1) Thank God for low carb tortillas.
2) Konjac noodles are The Work of The Devil.
Click to expand...
Out of curiosity, do you find it hard going particularly at times when you haven't had as much sleep as you're used to?
 
slapo said:
Out of curiosity, do you find it hard going particularly at times when you haven't had as much sleep as you're used to
Click to expand...
Sleep or lack of it hasn't affected me foodwise;
the only real difficulty has been people offering food
that I couldn't eat! Also cravings for the stuff I'm avoiding.
 
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