End of european badger hair in shaving brushes?Plisson & VL

[Teiste]

Gentleman:
as you already know I have told many times how Vie Long uses european badger hair in their shaving brushes and that they used to have the same badger hair distributor than Plisson.
Well,I have been "investigating" since I discovered a small factory in Spain (Escoda) that used to make a badger brush (only one model) with european white badger hair.Somebody from foroafeitado.com got that brush and also, contacted the guy that makes the brushes, and he told my friend that european hair wasn't available anymore, and that he was getting Chinese badger instead of Russian one to make his brush,which was a shame to him, since he thought that the european badger hair was better.
Well,after knowing that I have been asking here and there,to brush makers and other people (distributors) about it and it seems that european badger hair its not available since march 2009,when the last distributor "closed" his business,so I have sent a message to Plisson and Vie Long about it, with no response from them, and Im not holding my breath to get one,to be honest.
The question now is:is Plisson using european badger hair in their top line brushes?and what about Vie Long?I must say that VL dont promote that as much as Plisson and also the VL top line badger brushes are cheaper than many other brands,but what about Plisson?Are we paying for the badger hair or for the "marketing",tradition, and so on that Plisson has?
It seems to me thatr they have a huge stock of european badger hair which would last forever (badger and boar hair is sold by kilos) or theyre using chinese hair and basically charging us a fortune for it (Plisson),which is fine if you have the money and want to spend it in one,but at least,they should let know what are you really getting.
I dont have any problems getting a shaving brush with chinese badger but as a customers I wanna know what Im getting and the "silence" from the makers its not something that I like either.

 

[RB73]

Re: End of european badger hair in shaving brushes?Plisson &

Yep, im trying to find the earliest of Fido's posts on a couple of the other sites from when he was trying to get information from brush makers marketing "Made in England".

Like you, a wall of silence and plenty of feathers ruffled.

 

[Fido]

Re: End of european badger hair in shaving brushes?Plisson &

"Made in England" is a different issue to "where does the hair come from" There are doubts about some brushes that are claimed to have been made in England. But it's only speculation. As to the sourcing of badger hair, that too will remain a subject of intense speculation among just a few aficionados.The fact is that there are huge mark ups on most good quality badger brushes, not just Plissons.

 

[antdad]

Re: End of european badger hair in shaving brushes?Plisson &

Forgive me but I thought that even if you had it you couldn't even use Euro badger for luxury products any more so I'd assumed Euro brush makers had used Chinese hair ever since the ban had been put in place.

Henk wrote a piece that I cannot locate....oh here we go

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[RB73]

Re: End of european badger hair in shaving brushes?Plisson &

"Made in England" is a different issue to "where does the hair come from" There are doubts about some brushes that are claimed to have been made in England. But it's only speculation. As to the sourcing of badger hair, that too will remain a subject of intense speculation among just a few aficionados.The fact is that there are huge mark ups on most good quality badger brushes, not just Plissons.

Different yes, but not that far apart. My intention of highlighting those earlier posts were to give Teiste a nod to what he may expect.

 

[Teiste]

Re: End of european badger hair in shaving brushes?Plisson &

Henk post pointed something that I didnt get at the time and now everything makes sense.

 

[henkverhaar]

Re: End of european badger hair in shaving brushes?Plisson &

Forgive me but I thought that even if you had it you couldn't even use Euro badger for luxury products any more

That is correct. EU wildlife protection legislation protects indigenous species regardless where they are harvested. So if the Eurasian badger is protected, Eurasian badger products are banned no matter where they come from. By law, even if Eurasian badgers are harvested in China (which is possible; most chinese badgers are hog badgers, but there is a population of Eurasian badgers in north-west China), their hair cannot be imported. That is not to say that it doesn't happen, or that it is actively policed...

 

[du212]

Re: End of european badger hair in shaving brushes?Plisson &

Forgive me but I thought that even if you had it you couldn't even use Euro badger for luxury products any more

That is correct. EU wildlife protection legislation protects indigenous species regardless where they are harvested. So if the Eurasian badger is protected, Eurasian badger products are banned no matter where they come from. By law, even if Eurasian badgers are harvested in China (which is possible; most chinese badgers are hog badgers, but there is a population of Eurasian badgers in north-west China), their hair cannot be imported. That is not to say that it doesn't happen, or that it is actively policed...

There is no EU Wildlife legislation, the environment is part of the local law of every country member. Please show me the law where is said that the Eurasian badger is protected in the EU countries.

Europe is not only the EU, Suitzerland, Poland, Russia, etc....are Europe and they are not in the EU

 

[Yellow Jim]

Re: End of european badger hair in shaving brushes?Plisson &

The European badger is included in Appendix III of the Bern Convention on the Conservation of European Wildlife and Natural Habitats, which has been signed by most members of the Council of Europe and they're also protected by national law in most European countries.

 

[du212]

Re: End of european badger hair in shaving brushes?Plisson &

WRONG

This is not a Law is a treaty, the spanish law allows to fish the hucho and the salmo salar that are protected by this treaty,....And this is not an EU LAW, the Council of Europe and the EU are different organisations, and the Bern Convention needs to be developped by the laws of every country. It has not law force by itself

 

[du212]

Re: End of european badger hair in shaving brushes?Plisson &

WRONG

This is not a Law is a treaty, the spanish law allows to fish the hucho and the salmo salar that are protected by this treaty,....And this is not an EU LAW, the Council of Europe and the EU are different organisations, and the Bern Convention needs to be developped by the laws of every country. It has not law force by itself

1979? this convention doesn't apply now, its previous to the EU laws, and the Spanish laws and the spanish regional law.

Today I fish salmon in the river Bidassoa, and I enjoy the traditional recipes of badger roasted with onion and potatoes :lol:

 

[Yellow Jim]

Re: End of european badger hair in shaving brushes?Plisson &

Read my post again and then delete the word WRONG from your post.

At no point did I say it was enshrined in EU law. I simply stated that they are listed in the Bern Convention and protected by national laws in many European countries. I'm well aware that the EU and the Council of Europe are different organisations, hence why I didn't refer to the EU.

 

[du212]

Re: End of european badger hair in shaving brushes?Plisson &

Well you are wrong because the badger can be not protected in every european country.....at least I (and you ) don't know all the environment related laws of every country in Europe to say if the badger is protected or not. For me you are wrong, sorry.

In Spain, for instance there are different laws related to the environmental protection and hunting and fishing .... depending the region, every region have different laws, Catalonia that is part of Spain don't have a law to protect the badger and you can shoot at them as a hunter....But next to Catalonia in Aragon the badger is protected by the regional law.......

 

[Yellow Jim]

Re: End of european badger hair in shaving brushes?Plisson &

I'm sorry Jose, but go and read the post again. At no point did I say they are protected in every European country. To suggest I did is wrong.

Also, according to this document (page 40).

Badgers were regarded as small game, but have had protected status in Spain since 1989. All hunting is forbidden, but pest badgers can be taken under licence, although licensing policy depends on the individual autonomous communes.

 

[Yellow Jim]

Re: End of european badger hair in shaving brushes?Plisson &

I'm sorry Jose, but go and read the post again. At no point did I say they are protected in every European country. To suggest I did is wrong.

Also, according to this document (page 40).

Badgers were regarded as small game, but have had protected status in Spain since 1989. All hunting is forbidden, but pest badgers can be taken under licence, although licensing policy depends on the individual autonomous communes.

As you say it depends upon the region, but can they be hunted? Or only dealt with as pests? Although how is the distinction made.

 

[Islander]

Re: End of european badger hair in shaving brushes?Plisson &

I'm sorry Jose, but go and read the post again. At no point did I say they are protected in every European country. To suggest I did is wrong.

Also, according to this document (page 40).

Badgers were regarded as small game, but have had protected status in Spain since 1989. All hunting is forbidden, but pest badgers can be taken under licence, although licensing policy depends on the individual autonomous communes.

As you say it depends upon the region, but can they be hunted? Or only dealt with as pests? Although how is the distinction made.

Usually by local authorities on a seasonal basis. For example, for the next hunting season they may decide badger population is growing and destroying crops and allow for it to be hunted.