L'ERBOLARIO - lathering problems

Joined
Saturday March 27, 2010
Location
ATH
As most of you know, this week I found a L'Erbolario store here, and since I had never heard of the products before, I decided to give them a try.

I purchased products from two of their lines, Myrtle and Fern, including shaving cream(s) from each scent.

This morning, I thought I should bring back into my rotation one of my favorite badger brushes, the Dovo super badger with Aluminium matt handle (GBP 80 in Amazon.co.uk). So far so good. I put it in my Muhle ceramic bowl with warm water, and go for a shower. Ten minutes later, I take the water out of the bowl, dry the brush a bit as usual, put some Splendid soap powder in the bowl and start to make lather. All is going well, I help with just a drip of water, and am now ready to put some cream (the main constituent for making lather). Mind you I always do that - start lathering with some soap or powder, little, then put whatever brand cream I like and perfect leather is ready in a couple of minutes.

So, I put a generous amount of L'Erbolario Myrtle shaving cream into the bowl, start the process, no more lather. Cream appears slightly more watery than any other tube cream I have used before. I add some water, just a few more drips, continue to work on making something with the brush, but nothing. I begin to think why. I add more water, repeat with my Dovo, nothing still. I add even more water knowing now that I begin to get out of the allowed zone and that my mix will for sure be too watery, i.e. no good. More effort to lather, then try to apply whatever I have managed to create over my skin with the brush, it doesn't feel good. Doesn't look well on the brush, neither on the face.

Try to face-lather, nothing happens, no improvement. I am now puzzled. Try to massage with the Dovo a bit as well. Lather is still extremely poor. I decide to add some of their Fern scent cream (tube). Put it in the bowl, little water (few drops), same result - not good lather. Nonetheless, I decide I want to start shaving. First pass, WTG, ok, pores are indeed open. But overall, something is wrong, lather is terrible. I suspect something may be off with the Dovo, it had been out of the rotation for a couple of years anyway. Something is wrong here and I really want to find out what it is.

I decide to change brush. I dry my aluminum Dovo and take out my standard black Dovo. Wash the bowl, put the brush in the bowl (warm water) and give it few minutes in the water. Take care of my nails during that small break. Few minutes later, I splash my face with warm water, dry the Dovo, ready to start again for the second pass.

Splendid soap powder and L'Erbolario Fern together in the bowl, few drips of warm water, start making lather - still no good. It's not the brush. Something is wrong.

Decide I have had enough - I immediately open the draw and pull out a ToBS (Mr. T.) cream (tube), put a generous amount in the bowl, start lathering - BINGO. In less than a minute, perfect lather. Second pass, XTG, is now ready to commence.

Do you guys think I have done something wrong here?

Do you ever get such difficulty in lathering with some creams?

Both tubes appear to be from 2009 batches, so I do not think it is a matter of non-fresh products.

But what is causing all this? Shall I put more quantity? I wouldn't think so, but have to ask...

No matter how 'natural' these products may be, I cannot think they would possess such low lathering capabilities. Is that the way it should be, perhaps, here?

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Can you provide an ingredients list so that our resident chemist Henk can give you his opinion? 'Natural' products often don't cut the mustard because, though they no doubt have other things going for them, their performance is not often acceptable.
 
N_Architect said:
Do you guys think I have done something wrong here?

Yes, by buying what is most likely an inferior product -- this l'erbolario 'shaving cream'.

I would recommend against mixing a shaving cream or soap, and a standard soap (powder), but that is not the culprit here -- the quality/adequacy of the cream is. Do you have an ingredients list for us?

Henk

Edit: I didn't realise that the soap powder you mentioned is a shaving soap powder rather than a 'standard' soap powder. This should, in and of itself be fine, and you should probably use it alone, instead of mixing with cream (any cream); as you may see, I'm not a believer in 'superlather'. Having said that, I still think that the problem you mentioned is in these l'erbolario creams.
 
Thank you guys.

Will post the ingredients list when I get back home.

Henk: I was trying to mix shaving soap (in powder form) with shaving cream - that should be ok, should it not?

Anyway, will revert later tonight. I am really curious to see what Henk will say...

Henk's comment about inferior products made me realize the difference when you have e.g. Penhaligon's Fern and this 'Fern' - yes, there can apparently be huge differences between products.
 
I have that very same brush, came to me as a gift in a leather travel kit that also had a satin finish Futur to match. I have never heard of that product before but also have never used a shaving soap powder, interesting...who makes the powder?
 
Correct, Greek product. Made in a very old soap factory (19th century), shaving powder traditionally bought and used by barbers all around Athens and Greece. Friend of mine owns the factory and last time I went there he took me down in the production area, where he showed me the soap oils boiling, etc. we then went by the section where this shaving soap is made, he took a couple of these large plastic containers (painted red white on the outside with the word 'Splendid' in Greek), filled them up and gave them to me...

He also makes very good olive oil-based green soap, white soap (which his staff wrap into paper by hand [!] to this day), etc. They have asked him repeatedly from some countries like the U.S. for example to start trading fairly large volumes but he is not so much interested. His father was a chemist, knew all about compositions in these products they make, but sadly passed away young.

The large lovely scented white bath soap they make has the name "Alep's" inscribed on it (original owner of the factory in early 20th century was a person named "Alepoudelis" [family name]) if I remember correctly.

I'll also post a picture of how this shaving soap powder looks, tonight.

I also have this leather case travel set, made by Dovo. This is where I got my Futur and that badger. I've seen it around lately, it currently sells for approx. couple of hundred quid, if I remember correctly.
 
Noted with thanks, Henk. This 'Splendid' soap always needed to be mixed with very hot water, otherwise it would not dilute fully - I always disliked that (or perhaps I always put too much of it in my bowl). Anyway, will revert tonight on the ingredients of that Italian stuff...

Naturally will also post the ingredients of that Greek shaving soap powder, provided they are listed on that plastic container. Else, I'd have to ask my friend... (and I don't have his email)
 
Powdered shaving soap is an interesting concept, face latherer's might not like it but I could see myself dipping my brush and bowl lathering with it.
 
N_Architect said:
Noted with thanks, Henk. This 'Splendid' soap always needed to be mixed with very hot water, otherwise it would not dilute fully - I always disliked that (or perhaps I always put too much of it in my bowl). Anyway, will revert tonight on the ingredients of that Italian stuff...

Makes sense. Powdered soap is a completely dehydrated soap. Powdered shaving soap is actually not a new product type...

Naturally will also post the ingredients of that Greek shaving soap powder, provided they are listed on that plastic container. Else, I'd have to ask my friend... (and I don't have his email)

That would be nice, although our main concern is with the ingredients list of the l'erbolaria creams... ;-)
 
Ok gents, here we go. Let's see what I have for you, then I'll wait for the verdict:

Their Myrtle Shaving cream: (box shown in the pic together with the one for their AS, same scent)
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Ingredients of the shaving creme: (only shown at the bottom of the box, nowhere else to be found)
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Their Ferne Shaving cream: (box shown in the pic together with the one for their ASB, same scent)
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Ingredients of the fern shaving creme: (again only shown at the bottom of the box, nowhere else to be found)
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I'm not an expert but can see 'parabens' there - this doesn't seem like a 'natural' product to me... Anyway, Henk knows better.

On the issue of the Greek powder soap, unfortunately there is no ingredients list. I'd have to get data from my friend and when this is complete will post a review in the 'soaps' section.

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