Induction hob
- Thread starter mattlad
- Start Date
- Joined
- Friday July 22, 2011
Hi,
I hope you haven't spent your money yet. I'm a former Chef and Lecturer, my sister has induction which I've used a lot. I first tried induction in 1974. I have gas.
Most of the replies here don't mention cooking... for the money you could employ someone to clean your old one!
What do you REALLY cook? What do you want to cook? Can you stand by your cooking for the next year as you learn the difference, or would your current technique of putting it on and doing something else until you instinctively know it needs attention?
Induction hobs have a niche - but niche it is and it's currently a technology looking for a domestic market with sleek advertising. Other than one individual who despite being almost unable to do more than boil now, wouldn't/couldn't admit to an expensive impulse buy, no-one who had the choice would choose it over gas. If you want a "Country Living" photo kitchen, need or can afford to eat out often or cannot already cook and are looking for something stylish to make things hot - and you have no access to gas, go ahead.
Bear in mind that most recipes (techniques not ingredients) are developed on conventional hobs, all your traditional family food was cooked on hobs, have you considered converting them to microwave? It's not as radical, but I find the conversion to induction tiresome, especially having to "practice" a dish before teaching a nephew an old family favourite.
Few of the last two generations were taught to cook or learned to - that I believe is the only reason they sell. We rejected them out of hand in the early 70's yet we bought microwaves by the gross. Only withdrawal of cooking in schools and advertising that almost never mentions cooking (looks, style,cleaning, economy, modern(?), flush fitting etc). Arguments about controllability are just that, arguments - there really isn't a benchmark to compare the two. If you used one at a Gite for two weeks and loved it, Great, treat yourself.
Are you confident that you will ALWAYS be alert until your old instincts are overcome?
You can learn to use an induction hob, but I would say any children who learn on an induction will be locked into an expensive, time consuming, frustrating life of recipe conversions.
a bit of a rant I know, but sales led fads to the detriment of the buyer really piss me off.
Love'n'joy
Lloyd
PS Hobs are usually higher than the worktop, yet traditional cookers were/are below the worktop. My sister is no dwarf but struggles to attend to food at the bottom of a pan - eventually changing the dishes she cooks subconsciously because of the "trouble".
I hope you haven't spent your money yet. I'm a former Chef and Lecturer, my sister has induction which I've used a lot. I first tried induction in 1974. I have gas.
Most of the replies here don't mention cooking... for the money you could employ someone to clean your old one!
What do you REALLY cook? What do you want to cook? Can you stand by your cooking for the next year as you learn the difference, or would your current technique of putting it on and doing something else until you instinctively know it needs attention?
Induction hobs have a niche - but niche it is and it's currently a technology looking for a domestic market with sleek advertising. Other than one individual who despite being almost unable to do more than boil now, wouldn't/couldn't admit to an expensive impulse buy, no-one who had the choice would choose it over gas. If you want a "Country Living" photo kitchen, need or can afford to eat out often or cannot already cook and are looking for something stylish to make things hot - and you have no access to gas, go ahead.
Bear in mind that most recipes (techniques not ingredients) are developed on conventional hobs, all your traditional family food was cooked on hobs, have you considered converting them to microwave? It's not as radical, but I find the conversion to induction tiresome, especially having to "practice" a dish before teaching a nephew an old family favourite.
Few of the last two generations were taught to cook or learned to - that I believe is the only reason they sell. We rejected them out of hand in the early 70's yet we bought microwaves by the gross. Only withdrawal of cooking in schools and advertising that almost never mentions cooking (looks, style,cleaning, economy, modern(?), flush fitting etc). Arguments about controllability are just that, arguments - there really isn't a benchmark to compare the two. If you used one at a Gite for two weeks and loved it, Great, treat yourself.
Are you confident that you will ALWAYS be alert until your old instincts are overcome?
You can learn to use an induction hob, but I would say any children who learn on an induction will be locked into an expensive, time consuming, frustrating life of recipe conversions.
a bit of a rant I know, but sales led fads to the detriment of the buyer really piss me off.
Love'n'joy
Lloyd
PS Hobs are usually higher than the worktop, yet traditional cookers were/are below the worktop. My sister is no dwarf but struggles to attend to food at the bottom of a pan - eventually changing the dishes she cooks subconsciously because of the "trouble".
- Joined
- Saturday February 27, 2010
I tried a friends when staying with him a few years ago didn't get on with the thing at all.
Have to ask myself how many professional cooks / chefs / establishments use them? Would guess at a very small amount, I much prefer gas and see no reason to change just for some "snazzy" technology.
You going to ditch all of your DE stuff for a nice electric razor as well :icon_wink:
Have to ask myself how many professional cooks / chefs / establishments use them? Would guess at a very small amount, I much prefer gas and see no reason to change just for some "snazzy" technology.
You going to ditch all of your DE stuff for a nice electric razor as well :icon_wink:
- Joined
- Friday July 22, 2011
Hi Antdad,
Quick answer, No.
My sisters is quite new. Rather like the basic flame or microwave, changes are made around the core technology, but the fundamentals still apply. Economically they very rarely (niche) make sense, when they do they can be a real boon. As for the "professional" kitchen, the very best single range I used was blown oil. You needed a full time handyman too though, so the food was excellent but expensive. Almost the antithesis of the induction regarding cleaning:edible results ratio. As you have mentioned you use a slow cooker - a modern take on an old technique. I wouldn't have mentioned it without this thread, but there was a mention of a slow cooker, on low, gently bubbling. That is boiling - you can't get HIGHER than boiling for a wet mixture. The idea of a slow cooker is to cook above 55c, but somewhere below boiling. Another sales drive selling cheap, almost uncontrollable electric elements in a flashy plastic bowl!!! Aaarrrgggghhhh! I've got an old "slow cooker" that I use for sous-vide. I also need a thermometer and a timer. What we both have are "steady" cookers - start low, stay low, so without preheating they are "slow" - but this is NOT what a cook understands as "slow cooking".
Because cooking was done by full-time, employed servants, there is no historical legal protection for terms -remember the chocolate flavour cake with a cherry that was legally allowed to call itself "black forest gateau"? Thereby almost destroying one of the most delectable (and necessarily expensive) creations.
A few things have changed, see my post, plus eg internet (pans obtainable, one person in each country defends their purchase = 140 positive reviews on every site), more and better/worse processed/part processed food (a long and complex debate), food porn and the dearth of real butchers and fishmongers.
My simplified 'LACK OF ENTHUSIASM' for induction hobs is;
culture - almost all recipes are for conventional hobs and this is unlikely to change, or cooking techniques have to be dumbed down to the simplest form, eliminating the possibility of excellence for the recipe follower.
variables - as with shaving, try to keep to one variable. The underlying physics of an induction hob makes this virtually impossible for most practical culinary purposes.
there is no independent manufacturer of induction, stove makers will get your money whatever, so no contradictory voice or competitive pricing.
All the above encourages processed, homogenized foodstuffs to profit multinational accountants, not my type of gluttony!
THE most important skills for cooking are knife skills and purchasing skills. When I see Kitchen Devil and worse knives selling by the thousand, when many better knives are cheaper I'm dispirited and despise marketeers who are given free reign while educators are vilified.
love'n'joy
Lloyd
Quick answer, No.
My sisters is quite new. Rather like the basic flame or microwave, changes are made around the core technology, but the fundamentals still apply. Economically they very rarely (niche) make sense, when they do they can be a real boon. As for the "professional" kitchen, the very best single range I used was blown oil. You needed a full time handyman too though, so the food was excellent but expensive. Almost the antithesis of the induction regarding cleaning:edible results ratio. As you have mentioned you use a slow cooker - a modern take on an old technique. I wouldn't have mentioned it without this thread, but there was a mention of a slow cooker, on low, gently bubbling. That is boiling - you can't get HIGHER than boiling for a wet mixture. The idea of a slow cooker is to cook above 55c, but somewhere below boiling. Another sales drive selling cheap, almost uncontrollable electric elements in a flashy plastic bowl!!! Aaarrrgggghhhh! I've got an old "slow cooker" that I use for sous-vide. I also need a thermometer and a timer. What we both have are "steady" cookers - start low, stay low, so without preheating they are "slow" - but this is NOT what a cook understands as "slow cooking".
Because cooking was done by full-time, employed servants, there is no historical legal protection for terms -remember the chocolate flavour cake with a cherry that was legally allowed to call itself "black forest gateau"? Thereby almost destroying one of the most delectable (and necessarily expensive) creations.
A few things have changed, see my post, plus eg internet (pans obtainable, one person in each country defends their purchase = 140 positive reviews on every site), more and better/worse processed/part processed food (a long and complex debate), food porn and the dearth of real butchers and fishmongers.
My simplified 'LACK OF ENTHUSIASM' for induction hobs is;
culture - almost all recipes are for conventional hobs and this is unlikely to change, or cooking techniques have to be dumbed down to the simplest form, eliminating the possibility of excellence for the recipe follower.
variables - as with shaving, try to keep to one variable. The underlying physics of an induction hob makes this virtually impossible for most practical culinary purposes.
there is no independent manufacturer of induction, stove makers will get your money whatever, so no contradictory voice or competitive pricing.
All the above encourages processed, homogenized foodstuffs to profit multinational accountants, not my type of gluttony!
THE most important skills for cooking are knife skills and purchasing skills. When I see Kitchen Devil and worse knives selling by the thousand, when many better knives are cheaper I'm dispirited and despise marketeers who are given free reign while educators are vilified.
love'n'joy
Lloyd
Hi Lloyd, I think I get where you are coming from seeing as you are a professional chef and all, but the OP is a home cook which is quite a different kettle of fish. I have used both gas, cheapo electric and decent electric hobs. The vast majority of my cooking over the last ten years or so has been on electric. For a long time we lived in a house with no gas supply, and our new house has an electric oven which we plan to change. Most of that time was with a Neff hob that wouldn't quite go hot enough for my liking but had a lovely gentle lowest setting. Recently the hob I have been using is pretty much the opposite of that.
I am a keen home cook and mainly use recipes out of cook books. We're not talking Masterchef here but we eat well. We're getting a new kitchen soon and I'm really looking forward to getting a gas hob, though I can see why an induction would appeal for both aesthetic and practical reasons. Anyway, my point is really that whatever the hob I have used I have managed to adapt to it pretty quickly and it has not stopped me cooking the food I want to eat. I don't understand your argument about how inductions are incompatible with standard recipes. Do you mean that recipes will say 'put a pan over a medium heat' instead of 'put a pan on your hob set to number five' and therefore confusing induction-owners? If so I can't see that changing. Cookery writers and chefs, in my experience, assume you have a fair idea of how hot your hob gets and that you will set the heat accordingly. I have never encountered a recipe that, when describing pan temperature, is much more specific than low, medium or high. I also don't really follow your argument about this particular type of hob creating 'processed, homogenized foodstuffs'.
As I said, now that I have the opportunity to move away from electric, I am excited about cooking with gas. But, this is not because I am anticipating better tasting food, it is simply that I will enjoy cooking it a bit more.
I am a keen home cook and mainly use recipes out of cook books. We're not talking Masterchef here but we eat well. We're getting a new kitchen soon and I'm really looking forward to getting a gas hob, though I can see why an induction would appeal for both aesthetic and practical reasons. Anyway, my point is really that whatever the hob I have used I have managed to adapt to it pretty quickly and it has not stopped me cooking the food I want to eat. I don't understand your argument about how inductions are incompatible with standard recipes. Do you mean that recipes will say 'put a pan over a medium heat' instead of 'put a pan on your hob set to number five' and therefore confusing induction-owners? If so I can't see that changing. Cookery writers and chefs, in my experience, assume you have a fair idea of how hot your hob gets and that you will set the heat accordingly. I have never encountered a recipe that, when describing pan temperature, is much more specific than low, medium or high. I also don't really follow your argument about this particular type of hob creating 'processed, homogenized foodstuffs'.
As I said, now that I have the opportunity to move away from electric, I am excited about cooking with gas. But, this is not because I am anticipating better tasting food, it is simply that I will enjoy cooking it a bit more.
- Joined
- Friday July 22, 2011
Hi Pigcat,
I'm confused. I referenced my 'Chefery', ie in England, doing something concerning food to make money, but very much concentrated on cooking, especially in the home. You seem to lump traditional electric hobs (radiant rings) in with induction hobs. You say you see the practical appeal of induction, what appeal? Have you used an induction hob to cook a meal?
Lloyd
I'm confused. I referenced my 'Chefery', ie in England, doing something concerning food to make money, but very much concentrated on cooking, especially in the home. You seem to lump traditional electric hobs (radiant rings) in with induction hobs. You say you see the practical appeal of induction, what appeal? Have you used an induction hob to cook a meal?
Lloyd
lloydedwards said:
I admit to not having any direct experience of induction. What you haven't done is explain exactly what is wrong with induction. Please can you tell me what the difference is between induction and radiant rings, as I thought that the former was a more accurate and quicker-to-respond version of the latter. Is that not the case? To me the practical appeal of induction is the ease of cleaning. Then again I have seen gas hobs recently that looked a lot easier to clean than ones from years ago.
- Joined
- Friday June 24, 2011
I do a lot of cooking (Indian dishes) and have used all three (Gas, electric and induction)
As of now I am at a rented place where they are having electric.
I dont feel that induction hob is bad in any way at all. The only disadvantage is that you cannot prepare any recipes which require you to flame grill your meat (There are some nice chicken dishes in India where you have to slightly burn the meat on the naked flame after marination)
The positive side is that once you have made a dish in a electric or induction hob perfectly it is very easy for you to repeat the same as retaining the exact temperature for your cooking is very easy. Specially while making biryani where the final stages of cooking needs very slow even heating for almost 15- 20 mins
I would suggest that you go for gas if possible as it is cheaper else you can go for the induction heater.
If anyone is bothered about the way of cooking changing you should remember that all these recipes initially involved us burning logs for cooking and some dishes needed special wood to burn to get that perfect flavour in the meat. So if we can change our recipes from burning wood to gas flame than we can change it from flame to induction heating also.
I am not a chef (I do not make a living by cooking) but I love to cook and make alsmost all the Indian food types and apart from a very few which needs naked flame for grilling the meat or vegitable I could make everything in an induction hob or an electric hob) so you would not have any problem at all
Cheers
Shamreez
As of now I am at a rented place where they are having electric.
I dont feel that induction hob is bad in any way at all. The only disadvantage is that you cannot prepare any recipes which require you to flame grill your meat (There are some nice chicken dishes in India where you have to slightly burn the meat on the naked flame after marination)
The positive side is that once you have made a dish in a electric or induction hob perfectly it is very easy for you to repeat the same as retaining the exact temperature for your cooking is very easy. Specially while making biryani where the final stages of cooking needs very slow even heating for almost 15- 20 mins
I would suggest that you go for gas if possible as it is cheaper else you can go for the induction heater.
If anyone is bothered about the way of cooking changing you should remember that all these recipes initially involved us burning logs for cooking and some dishes needed special wood to burn to get that perfect flavour in the meat. So if we can change our recipes from burning wood to gas flame than we can change it from flame to induction heating also.
I am not a chef (I do not make a living by cooking) but I love to cook and make alsmost all the Indian food types and apart from a very few which needs naked flame for grilling the meat or vegitable I could make everything in an induction hob or an electric hob) so you would not have any problem at all
Cheers
Shamreez
- Joined
- Saturday October 15, 2011
(ive used gas, electric radiant rings and currently use induction)
the technology behind electric radient rings and induction is different
radient rings heat up the rings which then heats up the pan.
but induction heats up the pan directly using mangnatism (bassically what induction is)
thats why only pans that a magnet will stick to can be used on an induction hob
the advantage to this is that induction hobs heat the pans up a lot quicker.
personally i perfer induction because i find it cleaner. but for some dishes and things you might need a gas hob - but its always been like this
why do we have barbeques. because it gives a different flavor to the food.
it explains it better here than i ever could
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_heating
Induction heating is the process of heating an electrically conducting object (usually a metal) by electromagnetic induction, where eddy currents (also called Foucault currents) are generated within the metal and resistance leads to Joule heating of the metal.
the technology behind electric radient rings and induction is different
radient rings heat up the rings which then heats up the pan.
but induction heats up the pan directly using mangnatism (bassically what induction is)
thats why only pans that a magnet will stick to can be used on an induction hob
the advantage to this is that induction hobs heat the pans up a lot quicker.
personally i perfer induction because i find it cleaner. but for some dishes and things you might need a gas hob - but its always been like this
why do we have barbeques. because it gives a different flavor to the food.
it explains it better here than i ever could
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_heating
Induction heating is the process of heating an electrically conducting object (usually a metal) by electromagnetic induction, where eddy currents (also called Foucault currents) are generated within the metal and resistance leads to Joule heating of the metal.
- Joined
- Friday September 9, 2011
- Location
- Spalding, Lincs
I can understand the comments above about having to 're-learn' cooking methods and altering cooking instructions to suit a hob, but my parents recently had an Aga installed, it took quite a lot of getting used to, but they swear by it now and wish they'd got one sooner. I presume the learning curve will be the same going from one type of hob to another, regardless of which one you are going from and to.
- Joined
- Friday July 22, 2011
Hi all,
Just a couple of points, as I'm finding the use of the word "cook/cooking" to mean all manner of different things confusing and frustrating.
Induction is unique, in that not only the source, but the condition of the target effect the heating.
There is nothing you can 'only' prepare on induction, and plenty you can't, at least not easily - why limit your potential.
How many hours do you have to work to pay for the 'ease' of cleaning?
"Special" pans can cost a fortune, and cleaning them can outweigh the saving in hob cleaning savings.
A portable type single ring induction "stove" used for its benefits, as many chinese/japanese etc (and pro kitchens) do - the way some of you use a slow cooker is a wonderful thing. I would trade my slow cooker for an induction ring in a heartbeat. Everything else in my opinion is snakeoil.
lone'n'joy
Lloyd
Just a couple of points, as I'm finding the use of the word "cook/cooking" to mean all manner of different things confusing and frustrating.
Induction is unique, in that not only the source, but the condition of the target effect the heating.
There is nothing you can 'only' prepare on induction, and plenty you can't, at least not easily - why limit your potential.
How many hours do you have to work to pay for the 'ease' of cleaning?
"Special" pans can cost a fortune, and cleaning them can outweigh the saving in hob cleaning savings.
A portable type single ring induction "stove" used for its benefits, as many chinese/japanese etc (and pro kitchens) do - the way some of you use a slow cooker is a wonderful thing. I would trade my slow cooker for an induction ring in a heartbeat. Everything else in my opinion is snakeoil.
lone'n'joy
Lloyd
lloydedwards said:
Hi Lloyd, I'm still rather confused what your objection to induction is. Please could you provide examples of what you cannot prepare on an induction hob. Are you saying that normal electric is the same, or is there something particular about this kind of hob that makes cooking difficult or troublesome. I am totally sincere here, not trying to have a go. I really enjoy cooking and am curious about your point of view.
Adam
- Joined
- Friday July 22, 2011
Hi Pigcat,
As I and shanky said, radiant rings are not the same, not similar, not close. Like an oven (gas,electric,wood,solid fuel, camel turds or whatever) to a microwave.
If I say you can't do something, someone will argue - not my aim.
I know a website that gives instruction on how to make "bread" in a microwave and brown under a salamander. But that's not baking, and to me bread is defined as a baked good - not a dumpling, not a doughnut etc.
Examples, if you tilt a pan to baste the contents, the heating of the pan stops, you cant heat or warm a utensil, can't flambe etc. Plus the sales increase the already loathsome practice of "hobs" which are too high for most users. My friend, who does ALL the cooking, has to stand on a slab to use the hob in the "custom fitted kitchen" that her husband bought "for her" as "a surprise". It would cost thousands to redo the kitchen. Bloody salesmen - Admen, badmen, shysters.
Love'n'joy
Lloyd
As I and shanky said, radiant rings are not the same, not similar, not close. Like an oven (gas,electric,wood,solid fuel, camel turds or whatever) to a microwave.
If I say you can't do something, someone will argue - not my aim.
I know a website that gives instruction on how to make "bread" in a microwave and brown under a salamander. But that's not baking, and to me bread is defined as a baked good - not a dumpling, not a doughnut etc.
Examples, if you tilt a pan to baste the contents, the heating of the pan stops, you cant heat or warm a utensil, can't flambe etc. Plus the sales increase the already loathsome practice of "hobs" which are too high for most users. My friend, who does ALL the cooking, has to stand on a slab to use the hob in the "custom fitted kitchen" that her husband bought "for her" as "a surprise". It would cost thousands to redo the kitchen. Bloody salesmen - Admen, badmen, shysters.
Love'n'joy
Lloyd
- Joined
- Saturday October 15, 2011
lloydedwards said:
most people dont flambe things or set things on fire in pans, if you really want to flambe it use a match
and not all hobs autoturn off immediately if you tilit the pan to baste something
i know the one i use dosn't because i lift it off the heat to move butter around when im frying stuff
another advantage is that you can set a timer on the hob and it will auto-turn off after that time which is perfect if you are slow cooking something on the hob
Mine doesn't turn off immediately.
The impression I'm getting here is that for professional chefs and cooks, induction hobs are a no-no.
For the rest of us happy amateurs they are absolutely fine. Certainly I've used mine happily for almost three years now and nothing I've read here has changed my mind (I haven't done a great deal in terms of flambeing or using a naked flame - but then I've never needed to).
The impression I'm getting here is that for professional chefs and cooks, induction hobs are a no-no.
For the rest of us happy amateurs they are absolutely fine. Certainly I've used mine happily for almost three years now and nothing I've read here has changed my mind (I haven't done a great deal in terms of flambeing or using a naked flame - but then I've never needed to).