Honing a straight razor - a total beginner's perspective

[UKRob]

Iceni - what do you think of the Welsh slate stones that are available on Ebay? I'm aware that you have been testing various natural stones and wondered if you have tried these and, if so, how they compare.

 

[Iceni]

I've not tried them.

I plan to get them just to test.

This is the sort I would get for testing. It's only small 4.5" x 1.5" but you should be able to get it for a good price, And even at that size it should be worth the gamble.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-NATURAL-SHARPENING-STONE-THURINGIAN-WATER-STONE-/321484705097?pt=UK_Collectable_ToolsHasdware_RL&hash=item4ad9fb4d49

Or this one.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NATURAL-SHARPENING-OIL-WHET-STONE-IN-HINGED-WOOD-BOX-7-X-1-3-4-/311047402641?pt=UK_Collectable_ToolsHasdware_RL&hash=item486bdeb491

This one also looks like a high quality slate. I don't think it's a black Arkansas as the chips don't look right for an ark.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BLACK-NATURAL-STONE-SHARPENING-HONING-OILSTONE-IN-MAHOGANY-TRAY-/291213452262?pt=UK_Collectable_ToolsHasdware_RL&hash=item43cdaca3e6


Like I say it's all a gamble, but there is some very high quality rock out there that's not highly priced.

Where is south staffs are you UKrob. If you wanted to arrange a meet you are more than welcome to come over for a cuppa and a play on my rocks. I'm in Coventry city centre But I don't have a car.

 

[Tall_Paul]

Ok, have watched Jamie's video (see below) and am going to try again with another 'beater razor' today.

It mirrors Rob's comments about me not doing enough strokes. Therefore the razor probably wasn't really shave ready.

Couple of quick questions:

1 - If you have a blade with a fancy pattern on the face (like some Fillys) how do you protect that whilst honing?

2 - Do you guys hone into the curve of the heel, or are your bevels straight across the edge, and the heel remains relatively blunt? After my honing of a 6/8 yesterday I notice the curve between edge and heel wasn't sharp (but it seems to be on other 6/8s that I own).

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ9CPWIbvUE[/video]

 

[Iceni]

I use Gssixguns method.

Heel forward most of the time.

I always use at least 1 layer of tape.

Provided the pattern is in the hollow of the razor you should always miss it, If the spine is fancy just keep an eye on the tape, and replace it when it starts to wear out. The tang should never touch the stone.

https://www.youtube.com/user/gssixgun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2E9sovmb0Y&list=UUFsyslm41jb3ZPFa-2gdfdw

 

[jaycey]

The only part of a blade that (should) touch the hone is the spine and edge up to the heel.
The hollow part of the blade where there is any etching will remain clear of the hone.

So where the edge of the blade begins to curve round at the heel will also remain clear of the hone, because the edge of the blade will lift it clear.
Don't hone into the shaft/tang, stop at the heel.


Top Tip: Always replace the tape after setting the bevel or before if you are doing a lot of strokes on the bevel setting hone

 

[pugh-the-special-one]

Hi Paul, just make sure that you have a uniform level of sharpness from the initial bevel set from toe to heel once you have this then it's a case of everything else tends to fall into place perfectly gssixguns AKA Glen a good friend to me and an extremely helpful individual I always think of his words when honing any razor 90% of honing occurs at the bevel setting stage you slightly over look this most important part and you fail further up the line. http://straightrazorplace.com/honing/113046-bbs-off-1k-1k-shave-test.html

 

[UKRob]

That Dovo diagram is a bit confusing as the area it's pointing to as the heel is actually the shoulder or bolster. You will see on many razors that the sholder comes down nearly to the edge - this is where you should stop honing - if you go past this then the shoulder will lift the edge off the hone and you will end up with an uneven bevel. When Jason talks about heel first I think he is addressing this very point i.e. make sure the heel is off the hone before commencing the stroke.

@Iceni. Thanks for the offer - I have lots of stones already both naturals and synthetic - I added the Welsh slates purely as an option becuase they are cheap and widely sold so I thought it might be useful for people who are thinking of adding to their collections.

 

[rolatruck]

Once your razor is honed, is it possible to keep it sharp and shave ready by using a 12k stone say once a month to keep the edge sharp? Or would it be just as effective to buy another strop, coat one side with chromium oxide, and say the other with the black paste, and give the blade a stropping on that once a month? I think to buy all the stones would be expensive, just looking for a more cost effective way of keeping a straight blade sharp.

 

[Tall_Paul]

Hmm, more problems second time round.

I don't seem to have got the blade as sharp all the way across.

It passes the hanging hair test towards the point end of the blade but not toward the heel end.

I honed it all the way through (from 800 to 12K), then did it again as I wasn't satisfied (must have taken a fair bit of metal off!) but it doesn't appear to have made a great deal of difference.

Will try shaving with it later and see how it feels.

 

[UKRob]

A 12k stone is perfectly adequate for keeping your razor shave ready. However, once a month shouldn't be necessary - I can't be precise but many months should be the norm between honing. The pasted strop is a good alternative and can be much cheaper. I've just renovated a small ivory handled paddle strop that came in with two others for a total £15 from Ebay. I sanded and scraped off all the old paste and got the leather back to a nice nap again. Some Dovo Red and Black paste has been applied and an initial test on a dull blade waiting for new scales made a significant difference.

Both the red and black pastes (you use them in that order) came to about £6 and are less agressive than crox. Can't give you any more than that because I have not yet used the strop on a razor I shave with but paste is certainly a way of extending the life between honing.

 

[Nishy]

Stupid question alert, I'm currently using a 1K, 1.2K, 3K, 8K and 12000k. Most of these are naniwa I then follow the honing process with Cr oxide strop and normal leather strop. So far results are good I use the thumb pad test which I find is perfect for checking the bevel is set.

My question is having shaved off the 8K hone quite comfortably is it better to stick to this than honing at a 12K level? Reason being going back to DE, the feather is prob the sharpest blade but not necessarily the most comfortable? I'm guessing the obvious answer is its personal choice but I'm curious if there is any logic going for higher grit hones?

In other words is sharpness directly related to smoothness?

 

[rolatruck]

A 12k stone is perfectly adequate for keeping your razor shave ready. However, once a month shouldn't be necessary - I can't be precise but many months should be the norm between honing. The pasted strop is a good alternative and can be much cheaper. I've just renovated a small ivory handled paddle strop that came in with two others for a total £15 from Ebay. I sanded and scraped off all the old paste and got the leather back to a nice nap again. Some Dovo Red and Black paste has been applied and an initial test on a dull blade waiting for new scales made a significant difference.

Both the red and black pastes (you use them in that order) came to about £6 and are less agressive than crox. Can't give you any more than that because I have not yet used the strop on a razor I shave with but paste is certainly a way of extending the life between honing.

Thanks for the advice, i may just get a cheap strop, and do as you say with the red and black paste. If i get a strop with a fabric back, does it matter which paste goes on the fabric side and the leather side?

 

[UKRob]

Thanks for the advice, i may just get a cheap strop, and do as you say with the red and black paste. If i get a strop with a fabric back, does it matter which paste goes on the fabric side and the leather side?

Yes, the red would be on the linen and black on leather in this case - followed by an unpasted strop.

---

In other words is sharpness directly related to smoothness?

The objective of higher grit hones is to polish out scratches from lower grits. If you imagine a scratch on the bevel runs right to the edge - under magnification, the edge will have small tooth marks. By smoothing out the bevel i.e. taking other material down to the level of the scratch, you are effectively making those marks smaller and smaller - therefore a smoother edge. Sharpness starts at the bevel set but smoothness comes with the bevel polishing - don't be worried at using your 12k.

Using CrOx before every shave is unnecessary and because it is much finer in grit size means you could end up with a very agressive/crisp edge. If you have a comfortable edge off the hone I would not bother with CrOx.

 

[Nishy]

Re: RE: Honing a straight razor - a total beginner's perspective

Thanks for the advice, i may just get a cheap strop, and do as you say with the red and black paste. If i get a strop with a fabric back, does it matter which paste goes on the fabric side and the leather side?

Yes, the red would be on the linen and black on leather in this case - followed by an unpasted strop.

---

In other words is sharpness directly related to smoothness?

The objective of higher grit hones is to polish out scratches from lower grits. If you imagine a scratch on the bevel runs right to the edge - under magnification, the edge will have small tooth marks. By smoothing out the bevel i.e. taking other material down to the level of the scratch, you are effectively making those marks smaller and smaller - therefore a smoother edge. Sharpness starts at the bevel set but smoothness comes with the bevel polishing - don't be worried at using your 12k.

Using CrOx before every shave is unnecessary and because it is much finer in grit size means you could end up with a very agressive/crisp edge. If you have a comfortable edge off the hone I would not bother with CrOx.

---

Thanks I remember you mentioning earlier that you prefer a shave straight if a hone. Can I ask why this is? Is it just purely personal preference?

 

[UKRob]

Thanks I remember you mentioning earlier that you prefer a shave straight if a hone. Can I ask why this is? Is it just purely personal preference?

I still use a strop after honing - but the point I was making is that you can get a very sharp edge off a hone that is also smooth. I don't profess to understand what happens when CrOx is used but I find the edge too 'crisp' - perhaps it is similar to a feather SE blade.

Even after a couple of years I'm still very much in the learning stages when it comes to hones but have found that a Japanese natural I've had since last Christmas gives results that suit me in terms of the level of sharpness and feel. Because of that I tend not to experiment a great deal whereas others might see what differences different combinations of stones have. I've got a South African Zulu natural, Thuringian, Coticule, Welsh, plus 16k and 20k rated man-made as well as the lower grit ones.

The thing I like about the Jnat is that using different levels of slurry stone allows you to see just how the bevel is progressing. Under magnification, you see the scratch marks begin to show as hazy, then with each different slurry, the bevel gets brighter and the edge looks completely ribbon like. For whatever reason, I find it much easier to understand what the loupe is showing me when I use the Jnat.

I think it takes many years to understand and have a feel for the razor in hand and which stone will best suit it. There's a general saying that hard steel needs a softer hone - I'm nowhere near understanding the principles behind this or what other stones may suit a certain blade. However, I'm going off the subject a bit as the thread was about beginners.

 

[Mr_Smartepants]

I got the LED loupe in the post today. Boy is it tiny!

That Dovo diagram is a bit confusing as the area it's pointing to as the heel is actually the shoulder or bolster. You will see on many razors that the shoulder comes down nearly to the edge - this is where you should stop honing - if you go past this then the shoulder will lift the edge off the hone and you will end up with an uneven bevel.

This was my problem.
Looking at the edge under magnification it's clear where I was going wrong.