Can't get this one sharp...

lagaffe

lagaffe

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I've been trying to hone up an old Herbert Robinson near-wedge that I got from the 'Bay a while back. It's quite badly pitted and came with leather scales, but I like the fact that it looks old and battle-scarred and I've re-pinned the cleaned-up blade back into them.

However, I've been unable to hone this up to get it anywhere near sharp. I've been at it for three days now on my coticule, using the same Unicott technique that's worked for everything else - but it never gets near even beginning to cut arm-hair. I've tried blunting it on a glass and starting again, and I've sanded the edge back down and started again with setting a bevel. Nothing. It never gets beyond the stage where it feels like it might be close to catching and cutting arm-hair, no matter what I do.

I've heard of blades being tempered and not taking an edge - do you reckon this could be the cause? I didn't overheat it during the restoration at any stage, so perhaps the previous owner did?
 
Jeltz said:
Is this your 1st wedge? It took me a long time to set the bevel on my near wedge using a 1000 grit King before I went to my coticule.
Click to expand...

I've done an asymmetric grind (wedge one side, slightly hollow the other) a number of times before without much bother. But a straightforward near-wedge - no.

Maybe I'm just being impatient; I did wonder if it was just a little too much for my coticule to cope with. I've not got any other honing hardware though, so perhaps I'll just have to spend a LONG time on this one. I'd try using some wet'n'dry paper as a high-grit hone to get it closer initially, but that'll likely wreck the edge....
 
That asymmetric wedge was a microtome sectioning blade - not really for shaving with, although you can, of course, shave with them.

Old near-wedges have often gone through a lot of misuse and really need a complete bevel-set before commencing work - something like a DMT helps enormously. Once the bevel is there you are 90% of the way home.

A coticule can do a lot, but bevel-setting - although a possibility - is long-winded and best done on a more appropriate hone.

If you only have wet'n'dry it will still be faster than a coticule - you will just have to spend additional time tidying up the ragged edge. Be prepared to hone out a lot of chips if the w'n'd is too coarse.

You can save a bit of time if you begin honing the blade like a knife - keeping the spine off the hone - but you need a steady hand. Once your bevels meet you let the spine touch the hone and you only have to take off the thin ribbon of metal at the top of the bevel until you get to the edge.

Whatever you do, with what you have it will take a long while. A 600 grit DMT and a fast-cutting 1000 grit hone are great assets for this sort of job.

Regards,
Neil

lagaffe said:
Jeltz said:
Is this your 1st wedge? It took me a long time to set the bevel on my near wedge using a 1000 grit King before I went to my coticule.
Click to expand...

I've done an asymmetric grind (wedge one side, slightly hollow the other) a number of times before without much bother. But a straightforward near-wedge - no.

Maybe I'm just being impatient; I did wonder if it was just a little too much for my coticule to cope with. I've not got any other honing hardware though, so perhaps I'll just have to spend a LONG time on this one. I'd try using some wet'n'dry paper as a high-grit hone to get it closer initially, but that'll likely wreck the edge....
Click to expand...
 
Neil Miller said:
That asymmetric wedge was a microtome sectioning blade - not really for shaving with, although you can, of course, shave with them.

Old near-wedges have often gone through a lot of misuse and really need a complete bevel-set before commencing work - something like a DMT helps enormously. Once the bevel is there you are 90% of the way home.

A coticule can do a lot, but bevel-setting - although a possibility - is long-winded and best done on a more appropriate hone.

If you only have wet'n'dry it will still be faster than a coticule - you will just have to spend additional time tidying up the ragged edge. Be prepared to hone out a lot of chips if the w'n'd is too coarse.

You can save a bit of time if you begin honing the blade like a knife - keeping the spine off the hone - but you need a steady hand. Once your bevels meet you let the spine touch the hone and you only have to take off the thin ribbon of metal at the top of the bevel until you get to the edge.

Whatever you do, with what you have it will take a long while. A 600 grit DMT and a fast-cutting 1000 grit hone are great assets for this sort of job.

Regards,
Neil

lagaffe said:
Jeltz said:
Is this your 1st wedge? It took me a long time to set the bevel on my near wedge using a 1000 grit King before I went to my coticule.
Click to expand...

I've done an asymmetric grind (wedge one side, slightly hollow the other) a number of times before without much bother. But a straightforward near-wedge - no.

Maybe I'm just being impatient; I did wonder if it was just a little too much for my coticule to cope with. I've not got any other honing hardware though, so perhaps I'll just have to spend a LONG time on this one. I'd try using some wet'n'dry paper as a high-grit hone to get it closer initially, but that'll likely wreck the edge....
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Thanks Neil.

I'd only just gone and pulled the trigger on a 1000/6000 King with holder moments before reading this. Decided to treat myself - after all, I found out on Monday that I've avoided redundancy yet again so I know I can splash out a little!
 
I have a 1000/6000 King and find it a very good hone more than up to the job of setting the bevel. I also have a Norton 1000 the only real difference is the Norton cut slightly quicker.

Good luck with the wedge, hope you get there soon with it and report back to tell us how it shaved.
 
Near wedges are a beast. They were honed so many ways using so many angles, you really need to re-establish the bevel in most cases. Too many previous owners, too many different ways of honing. Plus it was probably honed free hand.

Could be pitting in the edge too, but it sure sounds like no bevel being set. If you give up, I'll volunteer to hone it for you gratis.
 
+1 on the 600 DMT for doing the donkey work. Nine times out of ten I start on one of those for any razor which has been out of commission for a long time. They're well worth the investment because they double up for hone lapping - just don't use them for novaculites (sigh).
 
Wedge blades aren't difficult as long as you follow one rule - forget whatever 'bevel' is on the blade (as it probably is way out) and cut your own. Sometimes you need to get a bit mediaeval with them - well worth it though as the edge you can get is usually a pleasure to use. I know mine are.

Doing this on a coticule is possible as long as you're say below sixty because then you have enough time to do the job!
 
Thanks all.

I'll get it on the 1000/6000 when it arrives and let you know how it went. If I get nowhere, I may take Lee up on his kind offer!
 
My 1000/6000 combo arrived today, but after 2hrs I've still failed miserably to get this sharp. I got close a few times using Neil's 'lift the spine off the hone' technique, but my hand wasn't steady enough and I ended up miles away again.

I think I'm going to take up ASharperRazor's kind offer and see how he gets on with it!
 
Well, a third attempt has succeeded and the razor was popping hairs off my arm when it was barely touching them! Stropped & shaved with it after finishing it on the coticule - cracking shave it was too!

The secret of my success was to follow gssixgun's 'Honing a smiling wedge' set of videos on YouTube: the first one is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEtb9k3APYM First attempt last night got me partly there before losing the edge again, and tonight I tried again but this time I followed his very first instruction and got the razor on the stone without any tape until I'd evened things out with the spine. I then followed everything else he did (though I only had a 1000/6000 stone and my BBW/Yellow Coticule) and hey presto, my near-wedge came good.

I'm chuffed!
 
Arrowhead said:
:D

Do you reckon you'd set the bevel prior to doing this Grant? And what did you think of the 1k side of the King?
Click to expand...

I don't think the bevel was set evenly across the blade before. I gave it some aggression tonight with no tape on the spine right at the start so that the high-spots on the edge of the spine were removed. Then once I'd taped it up I was working with an even edge and set the bevel properly.

A good lesson to learn!

I like the 1000 side - it'll come in very handy when the coticule just isn't enough when it comes to rapid metal removal!
 
I'm sure you're right about that, well if it worked then you must be!

I'm considering getting another King 1k to replace the one which was lost in a workshop fire. I'd more or less phased it out on productivity grounds because of the need for very frequent lapping, but in use it's one of the nicest stones I've come across - you can feel the surface renewing itself under your fingertips.
 
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