Artisan soaps vs mass produced

I try to use alternatively industrial creams and artisanal soaps, it allows me to enjoy their own qualities and differences. To put them in perspective, I like to think of them as a hand made macaroon made by a baker for the artisan soap and as a artificial/chemical sweet (that is very unhealthy but that you can't resist) for the industrial cream/soap. Is the artisan soap worthy: yes ; is the mass-produced unworhty: no.

You need both (at least one of each sort), whatever the price.

So we've got this:

lad-poster-macarons.jpg


versus this:

fraise_tagada_haribo.png
 
Well, Haslinger is a small company. The same for TFS or Valobra, or Nicky Chini (who make the Cella products). While they probably have to compromise more than the true artisans, they are small enough to care about quality, and the money they make likely does not end in the pockets of a far away CEO.

In short, I favour the products made by artisans and small companies.
 
Though perhaps not directly relevant to the shaving experience, I also appreciate being able to contact the artisan producer directly with queries regarding the ingredients and origins of the soaps as well as, on occasion, special requests. I've never experienced the same direct personal response or help from the PR dept of major soap manufacturers. Others may have had different experiences.

JohnnyO. o/
 
Eeyore68 said:
While they probably have to compromise more than the true artisans, they are small enough to care about quality, and the money they make likely does not end in the pockets of a far away CEO.
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You know that this, from an economical point of view, does not make too much sense. These big companies can offer small prices because they oriented their business towards producing big quantities of a product, at a specific quality level that will allow them to enter into big markets. A small artisan will have to have a much big profit per product, as he needs to take care of everything. Making, shipping, marketing. He will even pay more on ingredients, as he can't justify buying them in big quantities, so he will get better prices.
It's soap. I know that for some people, is magical, and, while I agree, it truly is, it's made with cheap, widely available, common ingredients. The quality does not lay in the ingredients, but in the way they are combined. That's what you're paying for, not for ingredients. The costs of ingredients are really the smallest price of them all. In the case of artisans, they need that profit to cover their equipment, marketing, shipping, all of that. And they base on getting that investment back from few hundred soaps, not tens of thousands like the big companies.
So, as far as cutting corners go, an artisan will be more prone to this than a big company. Because he does not have as much to lose. And this can only hurt the consumer. There were talks about why we don't have too many US artisan soaps in the EU, and that's mostly because EU regulations. And those regulations are in place for a reason. To assure that the consumer is getting a safe to use product. When you cut corners and don't respect those regulations, but you are selling the soaps in the EU, you are firstly hurting the consumer, but you are also hurting law abiding soap makers. And those "artisan" soap makers shouldn't be encouraged, or, even more, glorified. There is nothing glorifying about cutting corners in order to make profits. And they don't comply to those regulations because they know they can't meet them. Their ingredients are too bad for them to test them out and assure a safe product.
 
SmurfK said:
You know that this, from an economical point of view, does not make too much sense. These big companies can offer small prices because they oriented their business towards producing big quantities of a product, at a specific quality level that will allow them to enter into big markets. A small artisan will have to have a much big profit per product, as he needs to take care of everything. Making, shipping, marketing. He will even pay more on ingredients, as he can't justify buying them in big quantities, so he will get better prices.
It's soap. I know that for some people, is magical, and, while I agree, it truly is, it's made with cheap, widely available, common ingredients. The quality does not lay in the ingredients, but in the way they are combined. That's what you're paying for, not for ingredients. The costs of ingredients are really the smallest price of them all. In the case of artisans, they need that profit to cover their equipment, marketing, shipping, all of that. And they base on getting that investment back from few hundred soaps, not tens of thousands like the big companies.
So, as far as cutting corners go, an artisan will be more prone to this than a big company. Because he does not have as much to lose. And this can only hurt the consumer. There were talks about why we don't have too many US artisan soaps in the EU, and that's mostly because EU regulations. And those regulations are in place for a reason. To assure that the consumer is getting a safe to use product. When you cut corners and don't respect those regulations, but you are selling the soaps in the EU, you are firstly hurting the consumer, but you are also hurting law abiding soap makers. And those "artisan" soap makers shouldn't be encouraged, or, even more, glorified. There is nothing glorifying about cutting corners in order to make profits. And they don't comply to those regulations because they know they can't meet them. Their ingredients are too bad for them to test them out and assure a safe product.
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You do not speak for me. I don't want to come across as rude but you simply do not know how much my ingredients, time, or processes cost. Please do not label me with these opinions.

Because 1 bad review can ruin me, I need to be even more concerned with every detail. I only use the highest quality ingredients and pay through the nose for it. That's why I hardly wholesale, because my margins are so low that here isn't room for another seller to make money.

Oh, and ingredient quality makes a HUGE difference to the soap. I could outsource my ingredients from India etc and probably half my costs, but quality would be difficult to control. Instead I pay more and make sure that I can visit my suppliers and ensure they meet my strict standards in person. Not over the phone or by email.

It's actually insulting that you claim to know so much about my business and smear the wrong information in places where everyone can see.

Rant over.
 
SmurfK said:
You know that this, from an economical point of view, does not make too much sense. These big companies can offer small prices because they oriented their business towards producing big quantities of a product, at a specific quality level that will allow them to enter into big markets. A small artisan will have to have a much big profit per product, as he needs to take care of everything. Making, shipping, marketing. He will even pay more on ingredients, as he can't justify buying them in big quantities, so he will get better prices.
It's soap. I know that for some people, is magical, and, while I agree, it truly is, it's made with cheap, widely available, common ingredients. The quality does not lay in the ingredients, but in the way they are combined. That's what you're paying for, not for ingredients. The costs of ingredients are really the smallest price of them all. In the case of artisans, they need that profit to cover their equipment, marketing, shipping, all of that. And they base on getting that investment back from few hundred soaps, not tens of thousands like the big companies.
So, as far as cutting corners go, an artisan will be more prone to this than a big company. Because he does not have as much to lose. And this can only hurt the consumer. There were talks about why we don't have too many US artisan soaps in the EU, and that's mostly because EU regulations. And those regulations are in place for a reason. To assure that the consumer is getting a safe to use product. When you cut corners and don't respect those regulations, but you are selling the soaps in the EU, you are firstly hurting the consumer, but you are also hurting law abiding soap makers. And those "artisan" soap makers shouldn't be encouraged, or, even more, glorified. There is nothing glorifying about cutting corners in order to make profits. And they don't comply to those regulations because they know they can't meet them. Their ingredients are too bad for them to test them out and assure a safe product.
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I've used a lot of US artisans and although none of them have gone through EU regs I have never had a problem nor have I herd on this forum or other forums that anyone else has had any major issues. Don't forget they will have to meet US regulations. Maybe the cost of meeting EU regs is not worth it for a US based soap maker? Your overall post does not seem particularly well informed, with the greatest respect of course.
 
flobberdob said:
Your overall post does not seem particularly well informed, with the greatest respect of course.
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Informed as what? As soap maker? I'm a simple consumer. Nothing more, nothing less. Most consumers are less informed than I am, so that's pretty bad. Except my two grandmas that were making soap, I have nothing to do with this particular business. But we can have this discussion about hand cream if you want, it would be exactly the same.

OSP said:
You do not speak for me. I don't want to come across as rude but you simply do not know how much my ingredients, time, or processes cost. Please do not label me with these opinions.
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Sorry, but I didn't say anything about you, your business, or your soap. Everything I say is my opinion and nothing more. As a certified EU seller, you should be all about what I said. You should be the one saying that those small illegal soap makers should go home, and let you, a law abiding business have a bigger market. On the other hand, if you are not certified yourself, your affirmations about the quality of ingredients do not hold any weight.

My expertise is not in soap making, but I know some things about small businesses. And if someone is gonna tell me that this specific business is the only one where corners are not cut, I don't know what to say. It might be the case. We live in a crazy world.
 
SmurfK said:
Informed as what? As soap maker? I'm a simple consumer. Nothing more, nothing less. Most consumers are less informed than I am, so that's pretty bad. Except my two grandmas that were making soap, I have nothing to do with this particular business. But we can have this discussion about hand cream if you want, it would be exactly the same.



Sorry, but I didn't say anything about you, your business, or your soap. Everything I say is my opinion and nothing more. As a certified EU seller, you should be all about what I said. You should be the one saying that those small illegal soap makers should go home, and let you, a law abiding business have a bigger market. On the other hand, if you are not certified yourself, your affirmations about the quality of ingredients do not hold any weight.

My expertise is not in soap making, but I know some things about small businesses. And if someone is gonna tell me that this specific business is the only one where corners are not cut, I don't know what to say. It might be the case. We live in a crazy world.
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Of course you are right about me not wanting illegal businesses on the market. That is a given. Luckily, the shaving scene is familiar with requirements and seems to not give them their business. to a certain extent (US artisans aside). The normal soap scene, however, i don't know. Even the big names don't comply at certain levels. I noticed one brand doesn't comply fully with their labelling!
 
Why are EU regs and compliance being brought into this conversation?

They're neither difficult nor costly to abide by, so the assumption artisans ignore them as a given is ridiculous.

Artisan does not equal an illegal and ignorant operation.
 
Daniel said:
Why are EU regs and compliance being brought into this conversation?

They're neither difficult nor costly to abide by, so the assumption artisans ignore them as a given is ridiculous.

Artisan does not equal an illegal and ignorant operation.
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I spoke to a fellow artisan who sells at markets. He told me he got chatting to other soap makers and they didn't even know that they had to abide by certain regs. I didn't until i covered my back and got in touch with trading standards to find out!
 
No reason to tar us all with the same brush though! We're an artisan producer also, with notified products, so we've been through the CPSR Certs, the PIF docs, GMP statement, insurance etc, I never understand the fuss it's easy!

Ignorance is no excuse in today's world.

Being an "artisan" does not mean you cut corners, I can see no relation between small vs large scale manufacture and the temptation to "cut corners".

Ahem Mr Volkswagen
 
I've always wondered were the line is drawn from being an 'artisan' to becoming mainstream , some artisan soaps seem to be more mainstream than the big brands.
 
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