2 new Straight Razors and some questions.

mulligano

mulligano

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Fife
I'm really sorry to bother you all with yet more questions, but I am really unsure with the following:

SHORT VERSION:
1. Which one is worth getting professionally honed and which one can I use to practice on?

Today I got 2 straights for a decent price. I have been a DE user and had ambitions of moving into straight shaving eventually, but when I saw these I snapped them up! But this does mean that I have done very little proper research into honing etc.

I know that these pictures aren't enough, so I have taken a number of both razors and put them in an album here.

Anyway, first things first - here are the razors:

HHYuryK.jpg


The first one is a "T.R. Cadman and sons" "Bengall" razor, made in "Sheffield. England".
From my measurements it appears to be a 5/8 or 11/16, full hollow ground razor. The box, that it came in says "Finest Sheffield Steel Forged and Real Hollow Ground in Germany". There is no indication whether this is the original box as it has only the name of a Dundee hairdresser's on it - "R.H. Irons, Hairdresser, Dundee".

p4il3f6.jpg


Second razor:

Ks2NQZK.jpg


I measured it at 6/8.
This one is harder to make out, but seems to be a "Joseph Elliot", "Best Silver Steel", "Sheffield.E" razor with " The Hamburg Ring", "Try me" engraved on the blade. It also has a C * C logo on the blade and beside the hinge as this one:

J-elliot.jpg


The box has "Joseph Elliot Full Silver Ring" on the front and "Made in Sheffield England" on the back.

e8QfUka.jpg


My current plans are to send the best quality one out for professional honing (and possibly restoring if I can't do it myself) and to keep the other one to practice honing on myself.

So, I was wondering:

1. are there any particular honers that you gents can recommend (I've found this site to be mentioned in a few places)?

2. Which of these two razors do think has the best chance of holding/producing a good edge, that the honer would need to work the least on? (or are they both kind of "too good" for a novice to practice on?)

3. Is there any way of dating these (even roughly)?

4. If you have any more info on either of these razors? I'm particularly teased by the writing above the C*C symbols on the box of the second razor and the Dundee hairdresser's (for whom I can find no info online!).

5. What is the best way to clean them? Particularly, which is the best/strongest metal polish to use to remove surface rust? I have begun to put them through the same routine as my DE razors (which can be read here) but the Goddard's Silver Polish doesn't really do much!

Thank you so much for your time in reading this ridiculously long essay and even more thanks for replying with any help!

Best Regards,
Micheal
 
Hello Micheal. The first razor has quite a lot of hone wear on the spine so, in my opinion, if you want to keep one just for honing your skills, this would be the one.

The Joseph Elliott appears to be in reasonable condition and should hone well enough. (I say 'should' because you can't tell until you start, whether there is any deformation along the spine or other problems.) Certainly Steve at the Invisible Edge or Neil Miller (Strop Shop) can do whatever is required.

Regarding restoration, metal polish alone will not remove rust - it needs to be removed with wet & dry paper if you want to get rid of any pitting as well as achieving a shiny finish. Autosol should remove any surface accumulated dirt. Again, both the names above can also do this if you don't fancy the slog yourself.

As regards aging and the other marks, there is a reference section on Straight Razor Place - I can't remember if you have to join in order to access it - but it may give you some details.
 
Thank you for the reply Rob! I'm sorry for a further question, but is there anyone in the UK that you know of that supplies strops and honing stones for a decent price? I'd obviously only need the most basic of setups to practice on.

I've seen that whipped dog offer a cheap starter strop which works out cheaper than the UK sites I've looked at even with postage.

Again, thank you for your time.
 
I sent some details on strops in the pm but something else occured to me about hones.

Firstly, once a razor is in shave ready condition, you should be able to use it with just stropping for quite some time - I would say measured in months, before it needs honing again. Therefore if it's just maintenence you want then you probably only need something like a 10k or 12k hone and, even then, you might decide that it's preferable to send your razor away rather than spend on a stone.

However, if you are perhaps thinking that you want to be able to set a bevel on a blunt razor and then take it up through various grits to a sharp and smooth edge, then maybe do some research on films rather than stones as the initial outlay is much cheaper. I don't have any experience with these but there is information on the various forums.
 
UKRob said:
I sent some details on strops in the pm but something else occured to me about hones.

Firstly, once a razor is in shave ready condition, you should be able to use it with just stropping for quite some time - I would say measured in months, before it needs honing again. Therefore if it's just maintenence you want then you probably only need something like a 10k or 12k hone and, even then, you might decide that it's preferable to send your razor away rather than spend on a stone.

However, if you are perhaps thinking that you want to be able to set a bevel on a blunt razor and then take it up through various grits to a sharp and smooth edge, then maybe do some research on films rather than stones as the initial outlay is much cheaper. I don't have any experience with these but there is information on the various forums.
Click to expand...

Excellent! Thanks. It was more the setting an edge on old razors that I was thinking. But, if it turns out I like straight shaving, I may just save up to buy a high end razor which I'd much rather send out for occasional honing as opposed to doing it myself.

Thanks for all the help!
 
Rob's got your answers covered.

My advice is to NEVER try to learn honing on a beat up razor. Keeping a shave ready razor shave ready is easy. Fixing problems is hard and you can **** it up worse very easily.

The vast majority of razors that are sent to me for honing are in bad shape. I think the majority of my customers manage to keep their razors shave ready themselves, but send me the razors that require bevel work.

Just my $.02
 
Chromium Oxide Paste on leather or linen or balsa can keep the razor touched up and going for quite a while before needing another honing and even then the bevel shouldn't need to be reset. The second razor looks in better shape, as far as the photos can show.

The first razor has a lot of hone wear, but tape added to the spine can help get the proper bevel, hopefully.
 
Rob's got your answers covered.

My advice is to NEVER try to learn honing on a beat up razor. Keeping a shave ready razor shave ready is easy. Fixing problems is hard and you can **** it up worse very easily.

The vast majority of razors that are sent to me for honing are in bad shape. I think the majority of my customers manage to keep their razors shave ready themselves, but send me the razors that require bevel work.

Just my $.02
Click to expand...

Chromium Oxide Paste on leather or linen or balsa can keep the razor touched up and going for quite a while before needing another honing and even then the bevel shouldn't need to be reset. The second razor looks in better shape, as far as the photos can show.

The first razor has a lot of hone wear, but tape added to the spine can help get the proper bevel, hopefully.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the advice gents. I'm sending the Joseph Elliot for a proper hone and I'll oil up the Bengall and store it until I've decided whether straight shaving is for me. I ordered a strop from ebay yesterday. It was cheap enough that I won't be too much out of pocket if it's crap but also won't be too distraught when I inevitably nick it either.
 
So the strop arrived today:

JD4gRHW.jpg

UWsWle2.jpg


It has a little creasing at one end:
Jgq0TDo.jpg


But the sewing at the looped end seems solid enough:
loIOiW4.jpg


It's also shorter than anticipated, although that's my fault for not properly considering the length. I've given my 2nd razor a few laps on it just to practice technique and it seems OK for that. I don't know whether it is genuine leather and the "made in Pakistan" sticker is definitely worrisome. But for £10 I can't really complain.

Once I get my razor back I'll see what like and let you know.
 
Is that the sueded back on the flip side that looks like felt?

You will see creases like that sometimes in the leather strops. I don't think it will harm anything.

As to length, even my longest strop, not including handles, is 21 1/2 inches long. The stropping surface length is what counts and all of my 8 strops are all about the same. They say 18 inches stropping surface, but in actuality, since you'd bump into the end pieces before you reach the 18 inches, it's more like 16 inches plus. That's enough.

Some benchtop strops have a surface much smaller. You just do more laps on them.

Remember, once you get your razor back from being honed, you will not need to strop for the first shave.
 
lindyhop66 said:
Is that the sueded back on the flip side that looks like felt?

You will see creases like that sometimes in the leather strops. I don't think it will harm anything.

As to length, even my longest strop, not including handles, is 21 1/2 inches long. The stropping surface length is what counts and all of my 8 strops are all about the same. They say 18 inches stropping surface, but in actuality, since you'd bump into the end pieces before you reach the 18 inches, it's more like 16 inches plus. That's enough.

Some benchtop strops have a surface much smaller. You just do more laps on them.

Remember, once you get your razor back from being honed, you will not need to strop for the first shave.
Click to expand...

The description claimed it was leather on both sides, but the flip side is definitely more like suede.

The stropping section is a mere 11 inches in length, but as you say, that simply means more laps?

I actually didn't know that the honed razor would need no strop to begin with - thanks for highlighting that! It makes so much sense I can't believe I didn't think that, I guess that's what being a newbie means.

Thanks for all the help and I'll make sure to post here once I get my razor back.
 
Just to clarify - the reason you won't need to strop is that whoever you've sent it to for honing should have already stropped it afterwards. A razor should be stropped after honing - I usually run a few laps immediately before use as well if there's a period of no use in-between.

It's quite easy for stropping to become mildly addictive - it's kind of soothing in a way. In any event, over stropping and rolling an edge are quite difficuly I read. One of the honeweisters on another forum tried deliberately rolling a decent edge but got fed up before he did any real damage.

Because your strop is a bit short just be careful that you don't catch the retainer straps at either end when you turn the blade over.
 
Just to clarify - the reason you won't need to strop is that whoever you've sent it to for honing should have already stropped it afterwards.

It's quite easy for stropping to become mildly addictive - it's kind of soothing in a way. In any event, over stropping and rolling an edge are quite difficuly I read. One of the honeweisters on another forum tried deliberately rolling a decent edge but got fed up before he did any real damage.

Because your strop is a bit short just be careful that you don't catch the retainer straps at either end when you turn the blade over.
Click to expand...

I thought as much, I gave my other razor a few laps of the strop and did find it quite addictive!

As long as no damage is done to the edge, stropping when you get the razor back can't hurt.
Click to expand...

That's good to know, thanks. I'll probably just try it out "as is" so I don't do any damage!
 
asharperrazor said:
Interesting contraption.

As long as no damage is done to the edge, stropping when you get the razor back can't hurt.
Click to expand...

That advice contains its own qualifier - if you have never stropped before or if your strop is of questionable quality (and with those creases I am afraid that I would consider the pictured strop in that category) then you may well compromise the edge.

I always strop after honing, as I would expect any respectable honer would, so there is no need to strop after sending away for honing.

If you are an experienced stropper it will not matter either way. If you are not, then why take a chance? It is by no means uncommon for inexperienced shavers to blame the honer for their lack of success, so it stands to reason that you should give the edge a chance first before possibly compromising it yourself.

After all, the first time shaver will still have to master using new and unfamiliar tool, skin stretching, blade angling, etc, etc, etc - all fruitful grounds for blaming the tool/honer for, so don't roll his edge first! :)

Regards,
Neil
 
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