Stropping query?

Angry Badger

Angry Badger

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54
Right then, I have an Executive wide strop! Now I am loathed to put any type of paste on it, as I feel this is a last resort to keep the blade sharp and just prolongs the need to have the razor honed???
Or is there a distinct advantage to put green/red paste on a strop to keep/maintain the edge? Personally in sheer ignorance I feel it's cheating to paste a strop and Honing the blade is the correct solution???
Awaiting education in this matter as I more than willing to learn!
Thanks in advance Andy
 
You can use pasted strops to refresh an edge but you always finish up with plain leather, and of course strop on plain leather before/after a shave. If that's your only strop no paste!

I like to use balsa wood for pastes. Glue a thick-ish sheet of balsa onto something solid then sand the balsa flat (mark gently with a pencil and keep sanding until all the marks have disappeared). Re-sand and re-paste every so often to keep it nice & flat.

Diamond pastes are very popular with some. And very unpopular with others. I haven't tried them myself yet.

Pastes are used after honing to take the edge a little further. And then every so often to stop the edge deteriorating so much that it needs to go back to the stones.

I kind of know this stuff in theory but not in practice. So far I haven't been able to hone my own razors. Next time I try, I'll maybe get a USB microscope so I can see where I'm going wrong.
 
Thanks for the explanation mcgruff, I do have to wonder though whether this all gets a little too technical with Honing and stropping!?! I can't imagine in days of old when straight razors where the norm that they would go to such lengths to get a razor so meticulously sharp and religiously maintain it!?! Yes I can envisage them spending say 15-20 minutes on a stone and the same stropping and that would be job done!
Or is it that with time technology has progressed and so has the strive for perfection!?! Hence the use of microscopes, fancy stones from magical lands and the such likes???....Don't get me wrong if the progression of time and technology has vastly improved the edge on a straight razor to it's ultimate maximum then I want it!!! But is all of it needed and is the difference that much different???.....Or maybe I have too much time on my hands and should really just get ready for work!?!
 
Personally I find a paste edge quite harsh many people would disagree with me , the idea is to refresh an edge that has gone a little dull or increase the sharpness (This is a fine line to walk as it is easy to make an edge harsh on paste).

If you ar egoing to use paste use it either on Balsa as Mcgruff suggests or on a Linen strop I wouldn't put it on the leather part of your main strop as you need that to finish on.
 
I bought a few 20x7x2cm acrylic bars (cut to order) and thick balsa, and have been using these with 1, half, quarter and 1/10 micron diamond spray to maintain edges on my straights honed elsewhere. My leather and linen strops are both clean. I have toyed with the idea of getting another paddle strop and putting green CrOx on it to see if it's smoother than the diamond, which can feel a bit harsh. I spoke to John June about it, as really I want to learn to hone properly, so he said to leave the diamond and balsa and use a stone. I ended up buying a Welsh slate rated at about 8-10K from him, and a x60 loupe to inspect the edge, and compare my edge with one that he did. In this way I hope to be able to maintain but also properly hone at some point, and if I can get decent results with that, maybe add a better finishing stone. I don't want to shell out a small fortune on a full set of Naniwas only to find I can't get the hang of it.
 
This is the bit seems to be technically scary!?! I was thinking of getting a stone to do this myself, but the more I see and read the less I want to go down this route! The last thing I want is to FUBAR my razor!!! So I will happily pay for someone's skill and time, saving me grief and headaches! Here's me thinking a couple of strokes on the corner brick work of the house would suffice!?! Guess that's a no then?
 
Well, yeah, I think there's a fair bit to it. I've watched a lot of videos from the likes of John June, GSSixgun, Lyn Abrams etc and tried to see what's involved. So far I've learnt that you need to set the bevel on something around 1k, and get it sharp enough to shave with at this point (albeit rough as a badger's behind I imagine) before moving up a grit. So all the real sharpening happens round 1k, then people tend to go 3,5,8,12 or whatever they're going to finish on. It seems that most use Kapton tape to protect the spine from undue wear, and the very lightest pressure is best, applied evenly along the whole edge, starting at the heel and running off the side of the stone towards the toe, at a heel-first angle, making sure to keep the spine in contact at all times.
So far I had one go on diamond 1200, then 2000/5000 stone, with a Stiz from ebay that arrived with some signs of abuse (weird wear pattern on the spine and a shallower smile on the edge than the back). I was not able to improve it on my first go, as I didn't have much idea what I was doing, and the previous owner (or whoever 'honed' it before I got it) had rendered it unshaveable.
I think I know more what I'm doing now in theory, but have yet to have a go as all my straights are shaving well at the moment.
 
Angry Badger said:
Thanks for the explanation mcgruff, I do have to wonder though whether this all gets a little too technical with Honing and stropping!?!
Click to expand...

Learning takes a bit of practice but most people seem to pick this up without too much trouble. Everyone needs a decent leather strop. You have a choice of pastes - or none at all. Then you have a choice of stones. Naniwa super stones are decent value. They're probably about the cheapest you want to go - except for a lapping film / acrylic plate set up. That can work really well but is probably a little harder to learn on than stones.

Alternatively you can just get a leather strop and send it off to be honed as necessary. Some people on the forum can do that.

You don't really need a USB microscope although it could be useful when you're learning. My problem is I don't know what I'm doing wrong but a microscope would (I hope) let me see what's happening to the edge at each stage of the process. Did I set the bevel properly? Did I smooth out all the scratches from the previous stone so it's time to move on to the next one?

The challenge of learning to hone was part of the attraction for me. I did learn a lot even though I can't quite hone a straight. A while back I had a door sticking in the door frame which needed planed down. I'd inherited an ancient Stanley plane which had been sat in a box probably for decades and badly needed sharpened. I took one look at the rusty old blade and knew exactly what to do and what grit size to use. Half an hour later it was effortlessly slicing flakes of wood off the edge of the door.

That's maybe the first thing to learn: razor honing is only just getting started where other sharpening jobs usually end. A kitchen knife will be perfectly usable after a 1k-2k stone but this is just the first step for a straight (setting the bevel).
 
Yep that's how I see guys, Honing is a separate skill/craft in this modern age to be learnt!....Sadly I do not have the time to invest in this wonderful venture! Not with all my other interests, mainly my wife and her horse, then there's my dog and shooting activities that we partake in oh and not forgetting work to be able to finance all these!?!....
Maybe I will seriously look into the Honing art in my retirement allowing me some spare time as this would complete the art of straight razor shaving. And whilst I fully appreciate the art/skill in modern day Honing of a precision blade I still can't help wondering if this is over kill!?! As I previously mentioned in days of old I do not see these men of old spending money on numerous stones let alone having the time to work on a razor after a full day's work and coming home to undergo various task around the house ie chopping logs, attending allotments and other such likes!?!.... Also I struggle to understand that if I am starting out with the perfect edge then after say a couple of months, does it really need that much work to bring it back to perfection, like setting the bevel then onto umpteen stones and several stropps!?!.....I am not questioning any ones ability or their ideas I just want to understand this particular tool so I can maintain and care for it the best I can, to me there is nothing worse than doing something and not understanding/knowing why!?!
Regards Andy
 
I think that when straight razors were prevalent (between 100 to 230 years ago) most men would have a weekly shave at the barbers, and most didn't own their own razors, certainly 150+ years ago. I would think a daily shave was rare.
I have seven straights that are in almost daily use and they get stropped after each shave (3 minutes) and honed about every three months, so it's not a huge commitment, but you need to want to do it.
 
Angry Badger said:
Also I struggle to understand that if I am starting out with the perfect edge then after say a couple of months, does it really need that much work to bring it back to perfection, like setting the bevel then onto umpteen stones and several stropps!?!
Click to expand...

Stropping on leather should keep a razor going for a long time. Some steels are harder than others so it varies.

Eventually the edge will need to be refreshed. In theory, some higher grit stones should be all that's needed to bring the edge back.

Higher grits are so fine they only really polish the edge. Thus, if there is any real damage like chips or dings you'd have to grind them out with a lower grit stone then run through the full progression.

If the edge has been made slightly convex with stropping & pastes, a stone won't hit the apex any more. A fine polishing stone (ie a finishing stone) might take forever to grind it out so again you'd drop down to a lower grit.

There are definitely some diagnostic skills and sharpening skills to learn. The easy way is just stick with a leather strop, maybe add some pasted strops, and then send it out to get sharpened a couple of times a year.
 
Yes a loop is a good investment to see what's going on with the edge, but you first must know what to look for, as for bevel setting I apply a fair bit of pressure or I would be tethered for hours, you only test it on your arm hair....not face, as you work through the stones you can get lighter until on the finisher it will be the weight of the blade only .
Also it will defo take more than 15mins... in time you will "feel" when it is time to move up a stone
 
@MarkP I'm inclined to disagree with most men not owning a straight razor and going to a barbers to be shaved. Just by the amount of vintage blades about would suggest these were more widely accessible added to this the production of shaving stands would also indicate a fair amount of home use and again the working man would not afford money for such a luxury as a barbers shop shave. I agree that the working man likely only shaved once a week and probably on Sundays when going to church, the gentry most likely would be shaved most days by their valet or maid as for the middle class gent maybe twice a week or more if the need arose such as a date night?
Just my thoughts how I imagined it being in times of old.
 
I don't know for sure but I think before Gillette invented the DE safety razor, anyone who didn't look like Captain Caveman would have had at least 1 straight razor, but quite likely a 7-day set. He'd keep these going on leather for a long time but at some point maybe send the set off for honing. I don't know if the barber would have done that (taking away his own customer?) but for sure in those days they had people who went around sharpening knives - maybe those guys could also do razors.
I've got 5 razors and with the exception of the Stiz which was not shave ready when I got it, all the others have been maintained by stropping on leather or the pasted balsa. Stropping seems easier than honing, and if you stay on top of stropping you don't need to hone for months. Once it starts to go, it needs a refresh, but to get to the point you need to reset the bevel seems quite a way away.
 
I’ve honed a few hundred razors so have some opinions which may be of interest to people new to straight razors.

- For maintaining an edge, you only need a finishing stone - fairly high grit, say 10k or more. You only need to get stones with lower grit if you intend to get into restoration. Alternatively you can try the Japanese one stone approach but this requires a lot of research and perhaps a significant spend.

- I’ve used diamond and CrOx strops and don’t think either are necessary if you razor is shave ready. Maybe they are capable of extending the periods between trips to the hone - I don’t resort to this as I always re-hone once a razor shows any sign of tugging. Personally, I don’t like the edges from pasted strops - as others have already said, too harsh. I’m not trying to be controversial here, but I sometimes wonder whether they are used to improve razors that are not properly set.

- Once the bevel is set - i.e. the two edges are meeting along the whole length of the razor, all further work on the edge is polishing out scratch marks so that they become more and more shallow and, therefore, create a smoother edge which is kinder on the face. I don’t think this is necessarily making the edge ‘sharper’, as I don’t see how you can improve on the initial bevel set.

- To me, a loupe is essential in monitoring progress and, even more, in seeing problem areas when setting a bevel. The things you look for are areas where the bevel is not quite meeting - angling your loupe correctly will identify light reflecting from the areas where there are still ‘flats’ instead of an edge.

- Taping a razor prior to honing is a must in my opinion. I think the logic is unarguable if you consider the basic geometry of razor design. The spine that touches the hone is approximately 1/4 of the width of the blade - this results in an inclusive edge of about 18 degrees. The important point is that any metal you remove from the spine is multiplied 3.5 to 4 times compared to the bevel so it’s very easy for the bevel shape to start becoming wider and making it harder for both sides to meet. Using tape helps to maintain the correct geometry and can be changed regularly during the honing process.

I hope these observations help - if you have any specific questions this seems like a good thread to discuss them.
 
@UKRob I salute you sir for such a fine and comprehensive response that even an old git such as my self can understand and relate to! Your post fully confirms my way of thinking and goes some way to suggest I still have a few marbles left in the tin!?! So for now at this early stage of my shaving adventure I will stick with a naked strop! Though I would like to aquire another razor just to alternate and again prolong edge life, ideally I would be looking to get a nice vintage example but failing that a reasonable priced modern day blade upto the £180 mark!?! So open to suggestions on that front, but as Stated would prefer a nice vintage....
The next BIG question has to be regarding STROPS! It appears in the UK there isn't a huge choice/range!?!....Dovo, Executive Shaving plus a few others all pretty much look the same but with their own stamp!?! I'm sure I am wrong but then again no great difference in price, yet the American Market seems to offer a wide choice of leathers from different animals and various qualities with prices to suit!?!....
I have read that horse hide is a very good stropping medium, but I doubt the wife will let me buff up my edge on her stead, even if I promised to be extra careful!?! God she can be really funny at times!!!
 
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