Help a noob out, Smoothness Vs Sharpness + Cushioning

[sj184]

Hi

I've had about 30 DE shaves over a period of 3-4 months. Interchanging with a catrdige razor at the start. I was shaving every 2-3 days. I have a really tough beard and due to a change of job, I will now be shaving everyday after a shower.

This may sound a bit strange: I've found as a beard gets longer, it gets easier/feels as if it is easier to cut. However, daily shaves are harder/appear to be harder because the beard is so short and feels so sharp.

When I was shaving every 2-3 days, I preferred Feathers, Gillette Swedes, Astra Superiors and Super Iridiums.
However, I find the Swedes and Feathers a bit too much for daily shaves. It's as if my skin hasn't "healed" in 24 hours to take another hacking. When going ATG, I am beginning to get small "blood circles". I have a few Astras and Iridiums at my gf's place but she's back in a week or so so I'll have to wait before I can try those as a Daily blade. I have some Tweet Platinums which I will use until then. Ages ago, I did try 1 Red Personna, which seemed fairly smoothe and sharp? Would you recommend these as a daily shave or is there smoother out there?

If I find a Feather is 10 for sharpness in a scale of 1-10 and a 4 for smoothenss (out of 10).
And a Super Iridium, 8 for sharpness and a 7 for smootheness.

Can anyone tell me which blade is top for smootheness but also above average for sharpness?
I understand, the answer may be either a super Iridium or Astra. For Daily shaving, smootheness really has to be the most important factor for me, as my beard cannot handle 5-6 days straight of feather/Swede, 4 pass shaves.

I read a post from someone on here who also prefers the kind of blades I use, and surprisingly, they also rate Derbys. I did try a derby once, a long time ago and did find it to be a bit blunt. are they known for smootheness?*

Thank you very much indeed.

Jetmeister


* don't want to confuse bluntness with smootheness.

 

[Fido]

Re: Help a noob out, smoothness vs sharpness

My nomination for a smooth shave - all about the same for me - are Gillette Super Thins, Crystal Platinum and Red Personna.
But what works for me may not work for you! And that goes for everyone here. But if I were you I'd give each a try. PM me with your address and I'll send you two of each to try.

 

[rangers62]

Re: Help a noob out, smoothness vs sharpness

Hi SJ and welcome
This might come as some unwelcome news, but, I have the same problem, I have to shave every day for work. I'm afraid that in my case having a tough beard with a heavy growth, going ATG as a matter of routine is not an option. My face gets progressively more chewed up with no chance for repair. A smooth, comfortable shave is what to aim for. Let me assure you, the difference compared to the holy grail of BBS is negligible and not worth the discomfort. I also find my shaves easier after a gap of about 2 days, strangely enough it seems to dull the blade quicker. Fido has generously PIF'd you blades, I would concur with the Thais and the Personnas, the others I am not familiar with. Try 2 WTG passes and 1 XTG, on workdays that is my routine. A perfect shave is aimed for on social occasions when I can allow my skin to recover.

Good luck

 

[sj184]

Re: Help a noob out, smoothness vs sharpness

Very kind of you. I haven't heard of those blades except the red personna, which i tried, what feels like a looong time ago. I cannot remember it. Thank you. PM Sent and I will also send you something in return.

Rangers, I agree, I will stick to 2 x WTG and 1 x ATG. Some very good advice. Thank you.

Rather than start a new Post, I might as well ask here:

What is the most cushioning soap (or cream) from the 'regulars'. So far, I've found it to be Tabac. Anything else that springs to mind?

Thank you very much.

 

[Fido]

Re: Help a noob out, smoothness vs sharpness

If you use enough product and create a decent lather,any of the well known names do the job effectively. TOBS creams are great value. Two of my favourites are Castle Forbes lavender and T&H rose creams. Lots of suppliers provide samples. Have a good look at the threads in soaps and creams for other ideas.

 

[antdad]

Re: Help a noob out, smoothness vs sharpness

Let me approach your problem from a different perspective...you want to be able to shave comfortably every day right?
It's not the question you asked but your assuming it's an issue with the blade because the way you currently shave is a bit much for your skin on a daily basis. I agree with Rangers about going ATG if you have a tough beard and shave everyday that might not be desirable, it's about beard reduction not elimination.

Personally Swedes are about the smoothest blades I've ever used but before you chop and change blades I would try a few other things that you may or may not have tried.

Thorough preparation of the beard.
Use a good hydrated lather. (make it thicker to provide more razor cushion if need be)
Thorough post shave which may include Alum, Witch Hazel, Aftershave or Balm.

Guide lines of which are available here...30 shaves is not that many to get your technique sorted, it can and might take a while longer. Interchanging with a cartridge might seem a sensible idea but the techniques are very different, a cartridge razor encourages you to pressure the head into the skin but with a D.E you want to use minimal pressure with the correct angle.

Use a D.E solidly for at least a week, 2-3 passes only, no ATG passes for the moment, proper lather and post shave. They won't be the best shaves you've ever had but it will get your skin and beard used to it and your technique will be better for it.

And of course ask away.

 

[cheese_dave]

+1 what antdad says. You have to stick with one method for a while to get your technique right before you start chopping and changing things. The only thing I would add is that the Feather is a wonderful blade, but almost universally accepted as the sharpest DE blade around and can be difficult to tame. Go for "lesser" blades, eg Super Iridium, Red Personna and Gilette 7 o'clock (yellow packet), they all seem to get mostly non-controversial reviews in here.

 

[Pig Cat]

Re: Help a noob out, smoothness vs sharpness

30 shaves is not that many to get your technique sorted, it can and might take a while longer.

I agree with Tony. For me, DE shaving did not 'click' for some time. I reckon I convinced myself for ages that I had great technique but was routinely getting nicks here and there. For me one of the big changes came when I started using much shorter strokes. I also make sure I only shave after a hot shower or a decent hot flannel to the face.

If I were you I'd spend the next couple of weeks just doing a one-pass shave. This will give your face time to recover from any damage you've caused but will still allow you to keep your hand in. Hopefully your circumstances will allow you to get away with a bit of stubble.

Finally, I will say something that most people here will disagree with. I am not convinced that makes of blade vary significantly. I have had times when I thought Feathers were no good for me, but a few weeks later I tried and liked them again. I put this down to a myriad of other factors that have affected my shaves over the months. I have gradually reduced the variables and improved my technique and the blades seem much less variable. I suggest you choose one blade and stick to it for some time until your learning curve plateaus.

I hope everything goes OK for you and you find something that works for you.

 

[1gear]

From another new guy....
I have used Boots own blades(Israelis) which i really liked. I then got some Red Personnas when i got my better razor. I hated these, and was sent some blades by people on here.
Was using Derbys for a while, and had done a good few shaves.
Moved onto Astras the other day, and ive got to say they give me the best shave with very little irritation, and bits that i used to get abit of irritation with when i used Derbys, i just stopped getting it.
I did then use a Palmolive shave stick(because people on here said how good they were) and it gave me the worst shave i had ever had. So much irritation it was unbelievable.
Ive got more blades to try, but so far the Astra blade in my Merkur 34 HD using Crabtree and Evelyn Sienna soap gives me the best shave iv had yet.
It has taken me the use of different soaps and creams, a few different blades to get to that though.

 

[Arrowhead]

Lots of good advice above, but for what it's worth:
- don't skimp on preparation. Basically, this means lots of hot water.
- why not save the Feathers for a once a week treat?
- all of the blades mentioned in this thread are fit for shaving with, although we all like some better than others. I wouldn't worry so much about that, and concentrate on a smooth, no pressure technique like PC says.
- taking a day off can work wonders, and don't get too hung up on getting your face to a state of billiard ball smoothness every day.
- soaps tend to be a bit more protective and cushioning than creams, provided you can produce good lather. Try making it a bit thicker to start with: you can always add more water to the brush. I'm especially keen on Mitchell's Wool Fat, but you can't go far wrong with Tabac.
- what razor are you using? (this is just curiosity really).
- we all have lousy shaves from time to time (well, probably not Tony), so just enjoy it and don't worry.

I notice I've been pre-empted by 1gear, so the following is aimed at him: did you use the Palmolive stick - style? Personally, I loath using shaving sticks, but I adore Palmolive soap, so mine's grated into a bowl. Unless you're getting an allergic reaction of some kind, it is well worth persevering with because it's good stuff regardless of price, and makes lather pretty much as good as anything else I can think of.

 

[Pig Cat]

I notice I've been pre-empted by 1gear, so the following is aimed at him: did you use the Palmolive stick - style? Personally, I loath using shaving sticks, but I adore Palmolive soap, so mine's grated into a bowl. Unless you're getting an allergic reaction of some kind, it is well worth persevering with because it's good stuff regardless of price, and makes lather pretty much as good as anything else I can think of.

I've just exchanged some PMs with 1gear on this subject. He did use it as a stick but I've persuaded him to give it a go in a bowl and let us know how he gets on. I couldn't 'get' the shavestick thing either. Just can't see the appeal. :roll:

 

[antdad]

- we all have lousy shaves from time to time (well, probably not Tony), so just enjoy it and don't worry.

Ha...with my goatee-guide I get perfect shaves every time.

 

[sj184]

lol @ above image.

- soaps tend to be a bit more protective and cushioning than creams, provided you can produce good lather. I'm especially keen on Mitchell's Wool Fat. What razor are you using? (this is just curiosity really).

Personally, I loath using shaving sticks, but I adore Palmolive soap, so mine's grated into a bowl.

I'm starting to prefer soaps too. Not sure if it's a sign of my shaving 'maturity' or whether my beard simply requires the extra cushioning they provide. Is a Palmolive shave stick simply a regular soap but in a weird shape? i.e. is it's composition the same as a traditional puck of soap? If this is true, does it mean I can wipe most shaving soaps onto my wet face like you do with a palmolive stick? I like the stick-style. Feels like i am putting on lip stick. lol. Plus, I feel there's no waste with the stick-style.

I use a 34c. I really want a 38c. I'm curious about Mitchell's Wool Fat. The people at B&B go crazy over it for a few months. Then, no one really mentions it.

it's about beard reduction not elimination.

Personally Swedes are about the smoothest blades I've ever used but before you chop and change blades I would try a few other things that you may or may not have tried.

Thorough preparation of the beard.
Use a good hydrated lather. (make it thicker to provide more razor cushion if need be)
Thorough post shave which may include Alum, Witch Hazel, Aftershave or Balm.
And of course ask away.

I may have under-estimated the number of DE shaves I've had. It may be closer to 40 or 50.
I was thinking the same thing actually: The Swede is incredibly smoothe and my beard should in theory be able to handle it as a daily blade. I'll keep an eye on my technique. There is definately a lot to learn.

To make the lather thicker, should i whip more air into it? I don't want to use too much water as it will become thin. At the moment, I dip my brush into a bit of cream and face lather for 1 minute. The lather is so-so. Not thin and not thick (like that in mantic videos). More recently, I have been using Palmolive stick.

I read one of your previous posts where I think you recommended Boots Witch Hazel and Tea tree mix. I have been using that with a cotton pad: a quick swipe across the face before balm. It is very good! I do have alum but not sure when the best time to use it is. Right after my last razor stroke and before the cold water rinse or right after the cold water rinse (and let it air dry) and before the witch hazel/tea tree application?

+1 what antdad says. You have to stick with one method for a while to get your technique right before you start chopping and changing things. The only thing I would add is that the Feather is a wonderful blade, but almost universally accepted as the sharpest DE blade around and can be difficult to tame.

It is indeed a very sharp blade! Is it safe to say it may well be the roughest too?

30 shaves is not that many to get your technique sorted, it can and might take a while longer.

For me one of the big changes came when I started using much shorter strokes.

Finally, I will say something that most people here will disagree with. I am not convinced that makes of blade vary significantly. I have had times when I thought Feathers were no good for me, but a few weeks later I tried and liked them again.

I will try shorter strokes for sure. It makes sense. I see what you mean about the blades. Maybe, one day when my technique is good, I will be able to shave with any blade. That's the aim. And, of course, I'll have a preference for certain blades. I see what you mean.

Moved onto Astras the other day, and ive got to say they give me the best shave with very little irritation, and bits that i used to get abit of irritation with when i used Derbys, i just stopped getting it.
I did then use a Palmolive shave stick(because people on here said how good they were) and it gave me the worst shave i had ever had. So much irritation it was unbelievable.
Ive got more blades to try, but so far the Astra blade in my Merkur 34 HD using Crabtree and Evelyn Sienna soap gives me the best shave iv had yet.

Yes, I really liked the Astras too. Maybe even more than the Super iridiums. I'm currently on palmolive shave stick. I find it to be a good performer. The price makes it outstanding. It may just be in my mind, but the tallow containing stuff does perform in a particular kind of way. Both palmolvie and tabac have a 'clingy' feel to them. The lather sticks to my beard rather than just lay on top. Maybe it's just me.

 

[Arrowhead]

I'll address a few of your points as best I can. If you haven't already had a look at the various stickies in this section, they're all worthy of your attention.

Because I've only ever used old Gillette razors I can't say much about Merkurs, but I believe they tend to be towards the "aggressive" end of things. This is by no means a bad thing, but it does mean that cultivating that feather light (ho ho) technique is all the more important.

Mitchell's Wool Fat is made just over t'hill from me in Bradford, so it's unsurprising that it works well with my soft Pennine water; in fact almost all soaps do. Some people just give up on the stuff finding it impossible to lather properly, so that may well suggest that it's a water problem. The trick seems to be to use plenty, and to face lather thoroughly - this invariably results in a creamy cushioning lather which is definitely my first choice for use with a straight razor (I'm new to that, so I value the protection highly). The soap is not expensive at about a fiver for a refill, probably a bit more if you buy it as Kent's, which is the same stuff repackaged, apparently.

There are a lot of enthusiasts for triple milled tallow soaps; you're right about that clinginess. There are some outstanding vegetarian soaps though, and at least one superlative cream, made by Henk Verhaar, a regular here.

As regards making thick lather, it's mostly a matter of using a relatively dry brush and agitating the lather either in a bowl or on your face thoroughly, adding more water conservatively as it seems necessary. It's not about getting air into it - big bubbles are bad and usually indicate a lather which will deteriorate rapidly. Antdad's tutorial goes into this in some depth.

I wouldn't call Feather blades especially rough, though they're certainly not as smooth as some. I lament the passing of the UK made Wilkinson Sword blades which set the standard for a smooth edge to my mind, but there are still plenty of good options out there, Iridium Super being my current favourite and a major component of my stockpile. There are a few truly bad blades available which are well worth avoiding: we chewed that one over recently here:
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[antdad]

Your current set up should be good enough...just study the guides in this forum.

Olie's guide
Lathering guide's
Mantic's tutorials

Stick with one set up for a week preferably two, make one change at a time. Change the blade automatically after 2nd or 3rd shave don't worry about blade longevity for the moment.
If you can shave in the evening (more time) and after shower (hydrate beard)
Hydrating the beard makes it softer and easier to cut.
Follow the guides and practice building lather it will be worth your while.

Use minimal pressure, concentrate on head angle and short strokes.
I would avoid shaving against the grain ATG for the moment...it is usually the cause of irritation and discomfort.
Include an extra pass either with the grain WTG or across the grain XTG if you have to.
The neck area can be difficult with very soft skin and the beard going in all sorts of directions.
Try to "mapping" the direction of your beard growth, it will help in the long term.

For post shave I use alum block without rinsing then cold water rinse then a wipe with witch hazel, others will have a different routine.
After that its up to you, aftershave, balm, cold cream. Personally I like alcohol it is the best antidote to irritation for me.
Don't worry about how long it takes it will come in time and you will know when it does.
I think that's it...and of course ask away.

 

[sj184]

Thank you very much indeed.