Bevel set - Poor Grind? Recommendations

M

mike66

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59
Struggling to set bevel on new razor. To my knowledge the razor is factory fresh, and excluding the maker, has not been honed by anyone except me. I've not used tape on the spine (nor the maker)

I'm honing using film on an acrylic plate, and the pictures are after using yellow 12u, so roughly 1-1.2k grit.

Using medium ish pressure I've been unable to set a bevel. So painted edge with marker to see what's happening. You'll notice on one side after three very light laps on the 12u, marker is mostly removed all the way out to the edge. On the other side, contact is only being made on the top half of the bevel reveal, but not out to the edge.

Third picture I believe reveals where the issue lies. Pic is end on to the razor, looking at the toe. Note how, to my eye, the spine is a different width either side of the centre line, and how the grind seems asymmetrical in the body of the razor (left side seems to be ground deeper). What I'm perceiving is a different hone angle spine to edge, relative to the left and right sides. The edge on the left side seems to have a secondary bevel, different to angle being produced by spine and edge, meaning my honing is not engaging the very edge / apex.

My brain currently fryed from trying to work out what to do here. So thought I'd seek clarity from others. Maybe it's a simple fix, but I'm just not seeing the wood from the trees at moment!

Thanks in advance for any wise words to help me out here

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I think you are correct that it’s the grinding that’s at fault. As it’s a new razor you should try and return it for remedy or replacement - however, you might face the problem that you have tried to hone it yourself and thereby invalidated any claim.

If that‘s the case I would certainly use tape - you can always load more on one side to counter the uneven grind.

What make of razor is this? I ask because something so poor should really be replaced.
 
The photo does seem to suggest it needs some major reshaping, not just sharpening. Dropping down to 500 or 1000 grit aluminium oxide paper will remove metal faster.

I don't have much experience of this though. Make sure to get the plan confirmed by someone who does.
 
Advice from Rob (thank you!) as follows...

Tape spine both sides, and then add additional tape layers to offending left side to increase hone angle. Adjust layers of tape until the edge apex is being hit.

I'll give it a go at the weekend and update accordingly.
 
Giving up on this one... for now. Have got up to 10 layers of kapton tape on one side to increase the angle, but not making any progress. I may one day attempt to re profile the spine and even everything out, but for now it's confined to the draw! Thanks for everyone's suggestions.
 
I would not give up.

There are many reasons that razors' bevels aren't supposed to be perfectly solid little isosceles triangles, not the least of which being that thinner objects enter wood (or hair) more easily than thicker ones.

As you've already draw-erd it, why not buy an "AliExpress Special" cheapie waterstone, shape it to task, and try another tack? You might [with the asymmetrical work quantity upon the razor of a huge quantity of strokes on one side of this razor's bevel form and much less on the other side] be able to create a bevel which you can top off with a pasted strop and get it to shave you very well, no tape at all, and get flush contact at the apex of your incumbent steel.

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Rob, I see you are as helpful as ever! You argue to the man or to the irrelevant, but never to the topic direct.

How DO you rectify your mindset (that somehow perfectly isosceles triangle shaped razor bevels can be the only shape used) with the fact that it is complete opposition to the stated in print position of Pike not to mention an 1809 encyclopedia referencing the same of Sheffield? Are you really here to tell Pike-Norton, if you could in 1934, that they know not of what they speak?

All this chap has to do is buy any old crappy 400-800 grit 6" waterstone, file 2mm off the thickness of the two short ends, blend that reduction to the middle best he can, and use that hone to thin the mismatched side extensively at least until he can get the two sides to touch with a flat hone (no tape, spine and edge flush) - which admittedly might be quite awhile, but the honing part will take much longer than shaping a cheap waterstone that way, which should take 45mins or less. Once he's thinned off enough the rest will be easy.

All his prior work's being blocked by the zone between his bevel and the spine's registry position.

If I could mail a shaping mechanism, gratis, to Gary, I would. You'll believe him, and he is not closedminded as are you, and if he had the thing I have zero doubt he would chime in here and on YT about how it changed his shaving. But the UK's rules post-Brexit are amazingly anal. They seemingly don't even allow gifts of low value.

The original poster already said he was giving up on the razor, what do you have to add that he has not tried yet which would reverse that decision?
 
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@thesuperiorshave - thank you for the advice, really is appreciated. As I see it, there may be a number of different ways to correct this razor (shaped hones, flat hones, steel removal away from the hone etc), and all arrive at the same destination. I'm sure different people using different methods might all be able to get it shave ready. I'll bear your suggestions in mind when I next reach into the "draw of shame" razors, but for now that's where this thing is staying! Sometimes, for me anyway, it's best to walk away from something, and then return at a later date with a refreshed perspective.
 
Indeed a pause is often helpful.

The prior attempts with tape were a way to circumvent the obstacle of asymmetry in the hollow grind, whereas shaping the whetstone so that you are in effect honing outside of a wheel is a means to remove the obstacle.

Both will work but when you use tape you are increasing the effective bevel angle and increasing the edge thickness at a given distance behind its apex, these changes at some level will affect comfort because a thinner knife edge with a more acute effective angle will enter objects (hair) more easily.

I have a late 1990s French razor that is straight as a funhouse mirror but is my best shaver, and a particular German razor from 2005 or so that is an exhibition of geometric perfection which I've never gotten a terrific shave from, but keep because it cost a lot to buy. The French one has great hollowing and more flexible steel, but its bevel arrived factory new all wavy and has been so ever since...never had anything but a tremendous shave from it, so I'd revisit this razor at some point, you never know if magic is within.
 
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