Wickhams tallow shaving soap to be produced ?????

[Boru62]

I have tallow Haslinger and also a sample their new veg reformulation. I sincerely can't tell the differences performance wise.

It's the post shave where I find the biggest difference, maybe because animal fat nutrients are more readily absorbed?

Society is changing and evolving all the time. Crazy ideas become mainstream. Maybe it is time for a switch from tallow to vegetable oils.

If this also means veganism, I don't want to be responsible for the extinction of many ovine, bovine, porcine and poultry species.

If it does not matter what animal fat you use in the production, why not use properly processed human fat. Now that is what I would call a byproduct.

Cannibalism next step? Remember what happened when we fed beef to cows?

 

[pimple8]

I would use human tallow if it's a byproduct and can be used if there was no other choice or if it's legal and cheaper / superior in performance to others. Same like I would accept blood and organs from a donor.

The question of freedom/liberty is a hard one because we first have to decide whether or not animals have rights.
Some say that animals do not have the reason to understand and respect rights and the concept of property. An animal will kill for food. It will not be blamed for it nor can it feel regret. Even though animals have some level of intelligence they primarily act on instinct, not reason/moral. So it does not understand the freedom principle. So clearly you cannot treat animals as equals. Why should we use a nonaggression principle to species that do not give as the same treatment? Also, even this discussion shows that we can think whether or not killing an animal is moral is the difference. An alpha lion does not dwell on whether to attack another one who came close to his mate or a zebra that looks so delicious. The fact that we are intellectually ''higher'' species does not give us the right to kill everybody else of course. But it gives us reason to decide what is right or wrong. Torturing animals is not. Eating is. I think human species evolves and thanks to development can have other sources of food, minimize ill effects on the planet and so on. Agriculture has evolved a lot - if it didn't maybe we wouldn't have plants today.
Talking about plants, I would like to add that today's food producers mostly are not concerned about the well-being of the planet, but only in their profit and their benefit, consequently, they want to have a good picture with their customers so they act eco-friendly, do donations and so on so on. Anyway, fruit and vegetable producers do a lot of stuff that does harm to the planet. In order to have all those farms they destroy animals natural habitats, they dig the earth and kill millions of insects and bugs that live in that earth. They are no better than a pig farm owner.

Anyway, thanks to the abundance of choice we can go vegan, we can find new ways of living and so on. Some animals bred for food today are made out of a syringe. One day perhaps meat could grow on trees. I think it should be done cause breeding animals actually pollutes the planet a lot. Cloning is also a possibility. Whether that is moral is a different debate.
We have to and we are working on alternatives. We already do not have to kill to protect, kill for clothes and so on. I think we really do live in a great time. More and more food producers are becoming eco-friendly, treat animals with minimal suffering and so on. At one point we will evolve and have enough abundance to make a choice - buy a tortured animal's meat and buy a minimal harm and pain meat. And the ''bad'' producers will be no more. We're going towards it for sure and the fact that we're thinking about it shows at what level we are compared to other species on earth and where are we compared to some past times.

Sorry for TL,DR, it wasn't intended but it just came out like that.
I do not want to change anybody's mind, I believe in human freedom and with it the freedom of thought and choice.
I believe that we can be more friendly and respectful to animals and that we are more and more going in that direction.
That said if there was enough tasty and cheap alternative to meat I would transfer to that. Why the hell not. But it hasn't yet been produced. Sorry. Tofu just ain't a burger!

And that said, I like Wickhams. But in general tallow soaps just perform better for me. Out of 10 vegan, I think 2 are good. Out of 10 tallow, at least 6-7 are good. Being it a byproduct of the industry it's just using what is least harmful to plants, animals, and the planet in general so I don't see any moral debate here. If Darron was to hunt zebras for their tallow then I could reconsider using it. Since he is not and since MY OPINION is he would gain more customer than he would lose I think that going for it is a reasonable decision.

 

[naughtilus]

Meanwhile at Nicky Chini...

It is all about, as Bogeyman aptly put it,"mammal harvesting". We can be pro or con. We can argue but slim chance anybody will listen and suddenly go Wow! my bad, I am on your side now

I've read plenty of posts online how some shavers prefer vegan soaps because they are grossed out by the tallow smell and consistency. They are not vegan, just grossed out. With some artisan tallow soaps you may even find small chunks of fat (like yellow marbles) in the soap. It is what it is and it's not for everyone. Thankfully we are spoiled with choice.

To me it's all soap and I want to try them all. If someone makes soap with human fat or bambi's beer belly fat, I'll lather it up and get a great shave out of it.

 

[naughtilus]

You know, back at the end of the 18th century, the idea of abolitionism was a total crazy and laughable one, until the UK became a leader in that movement.


Society is changing and evolving all the time. Crazy ideas become mainstream. Maybe it is time for a switch from tallow to vegetable oils.

Veganism is older than Christianity or Judaism. Nothing new there. The problem with it lies in its existence as a secular quasi-religious form in the growingly atheistic socialist Western societies. The religions from where it was imported to the West 50 years ago promote individual betterment as a way for collective progress. In Buddhism life is suffering and the individual goal is to eliminate personal 1) cravings 2) aggression 3) delusions, thus reaching state of Nirvana, while not harming any other living creature in the process.

In the Western socialist veganism variant we see a lot of 2 and 3 ramping up in the form of activism and virtue signaling beyond any normality. Imposing personal beliefs upon others instead of focusing on self improvement. Now we officially also have mass shootings to save bambi.

 

[globalm]

Please avoid religious discussion or history. Accept differences of opinion and carry on. Thanks.

 

[Pepperpot]

I actually quite enjoy this intelligent discussion, but we are getting a bit carried away from the original topic.

 

[naughtilus]

Apologies for the off topic.

 

[JohnnyO]

And here's me still waiting for Wickham's glycerine soap. Still, D never made a poor soap yet that I tried, so whatever he puts in it will work for me.

JohnnyO. o/

 

[Scotshave]

You know, back at the end of the 18th century, the idea of abolitionism was a total crazy and laughable one, until the UK became a leader in that movement.


Society is changing and evolving all the time. Crazy ideas become mainstream. Maybe it is time for a switch from tallow to vegetable oils.

Maybe the status quo should remain and we should all make our own informed choices.

Your abolitionism argument is a non sequitur par excellence, imo.

 

[Boru62]

Your abolitionism argument is a non sequitur par excellence, imo.

I assume @Pepperpot is equating freedom from slavery with the freedom of not being used as a commodity, but as I pointed out earlier, if domestic animals dont have a purpose they will die off.

 

[Nisse]

I took one for science and tested Valobra, one of few soaps with tallow as main ingredient, and was not impressed, so I kind of suspect that tallow as magic ingredient is mainly a (successful) marketing ploy

 

[Scotshave]

I took one for science and tested Valobra, one of few soaps with tallow as main ingredient, and was not impressed, so I kind of suspect that tallow as magic ingredient is mainly a (successful) marketing ploy

It may be psychosomatic, but I find that tallow soaps perform better with my SEs and straight. For me, the Valobra stick is one of the best.

 

[Blademonkey]

Us tallow soap users must not get backed onto a corner and feel we need to justify why we use tallow soaps, I would never dream of asking a non tallow soap user to justify their use of it!
We like tallow soaps and we want to use them and that's all there is to it.
P.

 

[Pepperpot]

I assume @Pepperpot is equating freedom from slavery with the freedom of not being used as a commodity, but as I pointed out earlier, if domestic animals dont have a purpose they will die off.

It was one very important period, where traditions and common practice in society were overcome with the idea of ethics and morality.
That was so long ago, but there are still "slave workers" being used in certain parts of the world.
Well, the idea of the abolistionist movement did not start in England, but it surely took hold and spread from there. As some of my vegan soaps along with Wickham soaps are actually made in England/ UK, it was meant as a hint

There is, true enough of course, also the point of living beings, humans and /or animals, being a commodity.

Isn't it sad, that species, that are not going to be exploited, are threatened to be extinguished? Then on the other hand species, that are exploited, are still being extinguished, when you look at whales, rhinos and so many more.

But, enough of that, we are straying far offthe original topic

 

[Blademonkey]

It was one very important period, where traditions and common practice in society were overcome with the idea of ethics and morality.
That was so long ago, but there are still "slave workers" being used in certain parts of the world.
Well, the idea of the abolistionist movement did not start in England, but it surely took hold and spread from there. As some of my vegan soaps along with Wickham soaps are actually made in England/ UK, it was meant as a hint

There is, true enough of course, also the point of living beings, humans and /or animals, being a commodity.

Isn't it sad, that species, that are not going to be exploited, are threatened to be extinguished? Then on the other hand species, that are exploited, are still being extinguished, when you look at whales, rhinos and so many more.

But, enough of that, we are straying far of the original topic

That's very good what you did just there, you have your say and then say enough of that we are straying far off the original topic.......get a punch in and shut the door!
I agree we should stay on the topic I started and maybe if there is another agenda another thread should be started. P. Fair enough?

 

[Boru62]

It was one very important period, where traditions and common practice in society were overcome with the idea of ethics and morality.
That was so long ago, but there are still "slave workers" being used in certain parts of the world.
Well, the idea of the abolistionist movement did not start in England, but it surely took hold and spread from there. As some of my vegan soaps along with Wickham soaps are actually made in England/ UK, it was meant as a hint

There is, true enough of course, also the point of living beings, humans and /or animals, being a commodity.

Isn't it sad, that species, that are not going to be exploited, are threatened to be extinguished? Then on the other hand species, that are exploited, are still being extinguished, when you look at whales, rhinos and so many more.

But, enough of that, we are straying far offthe original topic

Moralising is all well and good but it won't butter no parsnips.
The average dairy herd in the UK is 143, and the average beef herd is 88, who is going to feed, house and care for 143 or even 88 cattle with no financial reward?
So for the sake of the livestock in the UK, I think it's Wickham's duty to make a tallow soap.