Whetstone Choice

antdad

antdad

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10,991
I was thinking of this combi whetstone to keep my kitchen knives up to scratch, at the moment use a 4000 no name which serves me okay. I suppose you get nailed with import duty, any thoughts?


<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Japanese-Whetstone-KING-PB-04-Combination-6000-800_W0QQitemZ380210993416QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5886575908#ht_2008wt_940" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://cgi.ebay.com/Japanese-Whetstone- ... 2008wt_940</a><!-- m -->
 
6000/8000 seems awfully fine for kitchen knives, unless you're into sushi in a big way. If the knives are top notch laminated Japanese jobs, fair enough, but if they're more in the Henckels or sabatier line I'd be inclined to go for a harder stone. (The folklore is that the harder the steel, the softer the stone you need - there's a grain of truth in that one).

Japanese waterstones take a lot of maintenance. They need lapping constantly to keep them flat, though that's not too much of a chore because they're so very soft, but you need either a diamond plate or a good stock of wet 'n' dry paper. They're also easy to nick if you get the angle wrong or use too much pressure, which probably sounds familiar.

As regards grit ratings, 6000 is as far as I ever bothered with for woodworking purposes, and that used to include planing satinwood, spiteful burrs and all sorts. 8000 is well on the way to finishing a razor, and if you put that sort of edge on a kitchen knife you will never squash a tomato again, that's for damty sure. The price for that stone seems good, even including carriage, but that said, the jump from your 4000 to an 8000 is not unreasonable, so you could omit the 6000. In that case, you might find a suitable stone at a sensible price closer to home.

Alternatives for use in the kitchen might include various Arkansas or ceramic stones which need little maintenance, or a Norton - either an inexpensive India combination (not so fine) or the well regarded 4000/8000 beloved of some razor honers. For what it's worth, I do my kitchen knives on a 600 (sic) grit diamond plate and touch up on a steel. It's possible to shave hairs off one's arm with a blade sharpened on that, but it takes practice and a light touch.

Any help?
 
try these tony

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.globalknives.uk.com/range/knife-sharpening-accessories" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.globalknives.uk.com/range/kn ... ccessories</a><!-- m -->
 
Good advice Arrowhead. I use a 1000 grit jap waterstone for my knives.

This place is not the cheapest but service is OK.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.axminster.co.uk/category-Waterstones-207976.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.axminster.co.uk/category-Wat ... 207976.htm</a><!-- m -->
 
Andy its the 6000/800 I was looking at.

8000 is over the top for kitchen knives I agree.

I should have said I have some ordinary steel, Sabatier and Wustoff and a high carbon japanese blade that hasn't really needed touching yet.

Thanks for the links.
 
Arrowhead said:
8000 is well on the way to finishing a razor, and if you put that sort of edge on a kitchen knife you will never squash a tomato again, that's for damty sure.
Click to expand...

I use a coarse/fine carborundum stone for my kitchen knives (my previous, too narrow, speed skate stone) and I never, ever squash a tomato.

I think the stone has a 1000/2000 rating, or something similar.
 
In the kitchen, a well sharpened knife to 1,000 grit is "enough" for just about all the cutting chores including sushi and sashimi.

With sushi and sashimi, though, the cut will be smoother and shinier with a more refined edge, making the fish look much more appealing. I see this every day at the morning fish market by my house. The last pieces of fish that don't get sold usually look like someone ripped the pieces apart, but the first cuts are shiny and smooth, and sell very fast.

As for tomatoes, any edge will do, serrated are preferred by many for tomato cutting because the serrations are literally saw teeth that rip into through the skin. Slicing tomatoes is another sensation entirely :ugeek:

When you get into slicing, at about 5K+, it is a different league in the kitchen, but it also requires a little more effort to keep the edges there.

I don't suggest sharing razor hones and kitchen knife hones. Razors like flat hones, while kitchen knives can quickly dish a stone, especially at the lower levels.

A great 2 stone combo for the kitchen includes a 1K and something between 3K and 6K. A great 2 stone combo for razors is 3K or 4K and an 8K.

:mrgreen:
 
jendeindustries said:
A great 2 stone combo for the kitchen includes a 1K and something between 3K and 6K. A great 2 stone combo for razors is 3K or 4K and an 8K.
Click to expand...

I agree, but - as they say - horses for courses. Nothing is written in stone (excuse the pun!) and it rather depends on what you need to achieve. If there is just minimal edge damage, than a belgian blue whetstone (BBW) will achieve admirable results in the kitchen - if you have notable edge damage you may well have to resort to 1000 grit and under.

The same holds true for razors - if you just want to maintain an edge all you really need is a good 8000 grit stone and some chrome oxide powder to strop with, or even just a barbers hone of sufficiently fine grit. If you want to reset bevels and take care of small edge damage you need to drop down the grit ratings - I restore razors and often resort to 325/600/1200 grit diamond plates for badly damaged blades.

A lot of people want more than an 8000 grit stone can deliver and resort, for example, to 10,000 and 12,000 grit stones like the naniwas, and 16,000 and even 30,000 like the shaptons.

Japanese naturals turn things about a bit though - you can often go from 4000 - 5000 grit hones directly to a japanes natural hone of in excess of 12 - 16,000 grit just by using a natural nagura to create a slurry - can be rather time consuming, though!

The thing to be is open-minded: and I know that both Tom and I are just that. What annoys me are people who spout "Norton" for this or "coticule" for that and cloud the issue with highly subjective personal opinions that are founded neither in truth nor on certainty. Just my 'highly-subjective' two-pennies worth, though! :D

Regards,
Neil
 
Solid advice, Neil!

My answer is usually Shapton for everything, though :mrgreen: (Unless you are going for aesthetic sharpening, like sword polishing.)

My knife maker once told me that "the more you know about sharpening, the more you need to know!"

I laughed at him (secretly) until it hit me that having and using the best stones only held 1/2 the truth. The rest was dependent upon the sharpener. The tool, its use, the metal qualities, etc. make each item I sharpen unique - and I sharpen a lot of different things including medical instruments, medical and beautician scissors, as well as knives. What I love about learning about sharpening is the "cross pollenization" from the skills of sharpening one item when applied to another, such as between beautician scissors and single bevel Japanese knives. But if you sharpened a doctor's suture scissors the same as a beautician's scissors - or visa-versa- you'd make each one very unhappy!

When I first laughed at my knife maker, I thought I knew a lot, but now I am amazed at just how little I know!
 
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