Wade & Butcher - returning!

Sorry, regardless of your good intentions and purity of thought, it simply boils down to this: a Wade & Butcher razor should be Sheffield-made in Sheffield from Sheffield steel by a Sheffield company that has proven links to the original W & B. When I had my last Bonneville, it was at least made in England by the revived Triumph marque whereas now the ruddy things are assembled in Thailand! If you are trading on a name of established, defunct or revived British excellence then I'm sorry, it should at least be British-made. Owt else just isn't Cricket. Oh, you can pontificate, discuss, debate or even argue but I'm shifting my opinion on this like Vinny is changing his mind on man-bags!
 
Gairdner said:
Sorry, regardless of your good intentions and purity of thought, it simply boils down to this: a Wade & Butcher razor should be Sheffield-made in Sheffield from Sheffield steel by a Sheffield company that has proven links to the original W & B. When I had my last Bonneville, it was at least made in England by the revived Triumph marque whereas now the ruddy things are assembled in Thailand! If you are trading on a name of established, defunct or revived British excellence then I'm sorry, it should at least be British-made. Owt else just isn't Cricket. Oh, you can pontificate, discuss, debate or even argue but I'm shifting my opinion on this like Vinny is changing his mind on man-bags!
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My goodness, such divisive feelings... LOL. Going in a bit of a circle here I think.

It seems clear to me that there are folks open-minded (and rational of thought) enough to allow this company to live and breath and who have hopeful expectations (slightly tentative as they may understandably be) that we can produce equal - or more accurately, let's be honest - far superior quality blades than were ever produced historically by W&B. I mean, as Zak on SRP eloquently pointed out: the blades spent on average no more than 10 mins. in the hands of any given artisan, and were largely polished by children. Now is that really your final say on superior British craftsmanship?? Really?? Well fantastic, you're entitled to that opinion - best of luck :)

And are you honestly equating a small modern workshop in South Africa run by an individual of English and German ancestry with a mass-production facility in Thailand/China? Man, that's some heavy prejudice to be sure... Elon Musk should be ashamed of being South African :(

But no, honestly this overly strong nationalistic view on Quality and Craftsmanship can only apply when you are comparing products produced at high volume by Suits only looking at the bottom line, against perhaps smaller companies that have an eye and an emphasis on quality before all else. Otherwise you're just sort of snobbishly saying that British/US made is intrinsically better 'no matter what'. Which is really quite ridiculous to be honest. In fact, 'New W&B' would be exactly the hyper quality-focused small-scale producer to the mass-production (polished-by-children) business that was the 'Old W&B'... so your stance is all the more confusing to me..

There really is no magic that automatically makes a British workshop produce more exceptional quality goods than a workshop based in any other geographic location, sorry - that right there would be some top-notch 'Tin-pot' pontificating if ever I heard it...

Also, please if anyone can kindly point me towards some of this world-leading Sheffield tool steel that can be used for our new W&B razors, that would be swell. I mean it sincerely - apart form Old-World references to the quality of Sheffield steel from the very distant past, I just cannot find current references to Sheffield tool steels that consider them exceptional above all others... Or are you simply referring to ordinary standardised tool steels, produced in Sheffield, that are covered by that same 'nationalistic magic' we mentioned earlier? :)

But hey, guys, really to each their own, and indeed it's strong opinions that make things interesting :)

Thanks folks, a lively debate indeed.
- Mike
 
If your razors are going to be that darn good, sir, why not give them you're own name if, as you infer above, they are going to be almost sullied by the Wade & Butcher name. I mean, are you sure you want your artisanal products associated with a brand that you state employed child labour and rolled off a production line?

Let me be perfectly clear, I do not consider all things British to be better, my point is merely that anything that trades off a British name should at least endeavour to employ a British workforce and materials. I have nothing whatsoever against any goods manufactured, crafted or otherwise made in South Africa or indeed, any other part of the world and wish you all the best with your venture.

God Save the Queen! :p
 
MichaelC said:
My goodness, such divisive feelings... LOL. Going in a bit of a circle here I think.

It seems clear to me that there are folks open-minded (and rational of thought) enough to allow this company to live and breath and who have hopeful expectations (slightly tentative as they may understandably be) that we can produce equal - or more accurately, let's be honest - far superior quality blades than were ever produced historically by W&B. I mean, as Zak on SRP eloquently pointed out: the blades spent on average no more than 10 mins. in the hands of any given artisan, and were largely polished by children. Now is that really your final say on superior British craftsmanship?? Really?? Well fantastic, you're entitled to that opinion - best of luck :)

And are you honestly equating a small modern workshop in South Africa run by an individual of English and German ancestry with a mass-production facility in Thailand/China? Man, that's some heavy prejudice to be sure... Elon Musk should be ashamed of being South African :(

But no, honestly this overly strong nationalistic view on Quality and Craftsmanship can only apply when you are comparing products produced at high volume by Suits only looking at the bottom line, against perhaps smaller companies that have an eye and an emphasis on quality before all else. Otherwise you're just sort of snobbishly saying that British/US made is intrinsically better 'no matter what'. Which is really quite ridiculous to be honest. In fact, 'New W&B' would be exactly the hyper quality-focused small-scale producer to the mass-production (polished-by-children) business that was the 'Old W&B'... so your stance is all the more confusing to me..

There really is no magic that automatically makes a British workshop produce more exceptional quality goods than a workshop based in any other geographic location, sorry - that right there would be some top-notch 'Tin-pot' pontificating if ever I heard it...

Also, please if anyone can kindly point me towards some of this world-leading Sheffield tool steel that can be used for our new W&B razors, that would be swell. I mean it sincerely - apart form Old-World references to the quality of Sheffield steel from the very distant past, I just cannot find current references to Sheffield tool steels that consider them exceptional above all others... Or are you simply referring to ordinary standardised tool steels, produced in Sheffield, that are covered by that same 'nationalistic magic' we mentioned earlier? :)

But hey, guys, really to each their own, and indeed it's strong opinions that make things interesting :)

Thanks folks, a lively debate indeed.
- Mike
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Hi Mike two questions, if you could please answer.

Sorry if this has already been mentioned/answered.

1. What period of time do you hold the rights to the brand name W&B is it for a trial run or indefinite?

2. Would the cost of your razors be set according to the current market price of a handmade/manufactured straight or will the W&B branding influence the cost?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
 
Gairdner said:
If your razors are going to be that darn good, sir, why not give them you're own name if, as you infer above, they are going to be almost sullied by the Wade & Butcher name. I mean, are you sure you want your artisanal products associated with a brand that you state employed child labour and rolled off a production line?

Let me be perfectly clear, I do not consider all things British to be better, my point is merely that anything that trades off a British name should at least endeavour to employ a British workforce and materials. I have nothing whatsoever against any goods manufactured, crafted or otherwise made in South Africa or indeed, any other part of the world and wish you all the best with your venture.

God Save the Queen! :p
Click to expand...

Hey man, no worries :) and I certainly don't mean to insult your personal sensibilities, as said - everyone has their opinion on all matters and are welcome to them.

But in response to your post: I reckon you can't now have it both ways... you can't on one hand adamantly express complete superiority of this British brand, and then, sarcastically based on my remarks claim that it will 'sully' my products.. I think you're losing the focus of your own point there..

Make no mistake, I care deeply for this brand (obviously), and the fact that historical W&B employed a method of production and a business model relevant to the vastly different era they existed in, truly has no negative influence on me today - that I want to produce exceptionally high quality goods under the same name - I think that is the entire point, to move the brand forward and to strive ever-higher in terms of quality and innovation. Does that idea not appeal to you?

You yourself now say that this revival should not 'trade off' a British name, and you also say you can appreciate true quality wherever it should originate from. So then, to be clear: there is no 'trading off' of this company name, as has been stated many times before, this is entirely and completely coming about at the hands of the original W&B company, still based in Sheffield and thus still a British company and brand. Only the work of handcrafting the goods is moving here to SA (for now), where as you agree, quality can of course be achieved.

Why not my own name on the products then? I've answered this previously and will again reiterate: it is both a branding decision (I make no bones about it) and also a genuine love and an appreciation for the company as establish by the good Brothers - it's evocative and inspiring as all strong brands should be.

Why else does any individual/company revive or acquire any brand? It's either A. A simple love for the brand, B. A business/branding decision, or C. A calculated mix of both these things.

We're with option C...

Hey, thanks again to all who are supporting of this venture, and to all who offer a cautious resistance to it - really it's all good :)

Cheers,
- Mike
 
MichaelC said:
Hey man, no worries :) and I certainly don't mean to insult your personal sensibilities, as said - everyone has their opinion on all matters and are welcome to them.

But in response to your post: I reckon you can't now have it both ways... you can't on one hand adamantly express complete superiority of this British brand, and then, sarcastically based on my remarks claim that it will 'sully' my products.. I think you're losing the focus of your own point there..

Make no mistake, I care deeply for this brand (obviously), and the fact that historical W&B employed a method of production and a business model relevant to the vastly different era they existed in, truly has no negative influence on me today - that I want to produce exceptionally high quality goods under the same name - I think that is the entire point, to move the brand forward and to strive ever-higher in terms of quality and innovation. Does that idea not appeal to you?

You yourself now say that this revival should not 'trade off' a British name, and you also say you can appreciate true quality wherever it should originate from. So then, to be clear: there is no 'trading off' of this company name, as has been stated many times before, this is entirely and completely coming about at the hands of the original W&B company, still based in Sheffield and thus still a British company and brand. Only the work of handcrafting the goods is moving here to SA (for now), where as you agree, quality can of course be achieved.

Why not my own name on the products then? I've answered this previously and will again reiterate: it is both a branding decision (I make no bones about it) and also a genuine love and an appreciation for the company as establish by the good Brothers - it's evocative and inspiring as all strong brands should be.

Why else does any individual/company revive or acquire any brand? It's either A. A simple love for the brand, B. A business/branding decision, or C. A calculated mix of both these things.

We're with option C...

Hey, thanks again to all who are supporting of this venture, and to all who offer a cautious resistance to it - really it's all good :)

Cheers,
- Mike
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But my friend all these 'high' quality remarks and your asking us the same audience you critique for the choice of steel?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
 
Nishy said:
Hi Mike two questions, if you could please answer.

Sorry if this has already been mentioned/answered.

1. What period of time do you hold the rights to the brand name W&B is it for a trial run or indefinite?

2. Would the cost of your razors be set according to the current market price of a handmade/manufactured straight or will the W&B branding influence the cost?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


Hey Nishy, sure thing:

1. It's an exclusive license with the mutual aim of either a formal partnership or acquisition/ownership. So in it for the long-haul make no mistake.

2. Great question, and I'm not blind to it's connotations :) Right up front, our razors will be priced relative to all this talk of 'exceptional quality' etc. So, yes - inline with current top-tier 'custom' handcrafted razors, likely at the higher end of that category. Unfortunately you can't craft an item with an aim at utter quality, without a cost commensurate with the sheer time and effort and materials involved to produce it. W&B is of course a factor in the product as a whole, but only insomuch as the craftsmanship and utility of the razors match the really high bar folks have set for the brand.

You aren't paying for the Name, you're paying for the quality that the name represents in a very real way.

- Mike.
 
Nishy said:
But my friend all these 'high' quality remarks and your asking us the same audience you critique for the choice of steel?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Hmm, not sure I understand your comment... But, I'm certainly not criticising anyone on this forum - indeed that is not my intention in the slightest. I was merely responding to this audiences criticisms of our choice of Swedish steel over Sheffield steel. I think it's easy to fall into repeating beliefs from the distant past regarding the excellent Sheffield steels (for their time), but currently, I don't know that using otherwise ordinary steel that is just made in Sheffield will yield a better product? This rationale is perfectly in line with my talk of 'High quality' - this is exactly the point. Choosing the best materials to craft the finest products - no?

- Mike
 
Mike I'll certainly be interested if the quality is where you say it will be, as UK buyer how would we fare as far as import duty is concerned can be a deal breaker for high end products?
PS I would love to know Neil Miller's opinon if he were here to put his point over I have a feeling it would be very interesting one.:D
 
MichaelC said:
Hmm, not sure I understand your comment... But, I'm certainly not criticising anyone on this forum - indeed that is not my intention in the slightest. I was merely responding to this audiences criticisms of our choice of Swedish steel over Sheffield steel. I think it's easy to fall into repeating beliefs from the distant past regarding the excellent Sheffield steels (for their time), but currently, I don't know that using otherwise ordinary steel that is just made in Sheffield will yield a better product? This rationale is perfectly in line with my talk of 'High quality' - this is exactly the point. Choosing the best materials to craft the finest products - no?

- Mike
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I have to be honest I haven't read the entire thread, my response was just to the comment made by yourself asking us as a forum which steel would be best. It could just be for information purposes, in which case I apologise. Otherwise I would have assumed when spending a large amount and with the reputation held; the decision would have been settled upon already.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
 
pugh-the-special-one said:
Mike I'll certainly be interested if the quality is where you say it will be, as UK buyer how would we fare as far as import duty is concerned can be a deal breaker for high end products?
PS I would love to know Neil Miller's opinon if he were here to put his point over I have a feeling it would be very interesting one.:D
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Thanks indeed. To answer your question: I do not know the current import duties/levies on an item like a custom straight razor for folks in the UK. It is certainly a factor then when purchasing goods from other countries. An option may be for us to ship in bulk (based on orders received) to Durham Duplex in Sheffield and distribute to customers from there - but we've not finalised distribution channels etc. as yet, remember that the output will be super small scale, so an import duty on a per-item basis may be the reality and something to factor in when considering to purchase.

Our actual shipping cost (internationally) will indeed be built into the cost of each razor, so that will be one less thing to worry about as a customer. The price listed on the site for an item will be inclusive of the DHL courier or whatever shipping method we decide on. :)

Thanks, - Mike.
 
Nishy said:
I have to be honest I haven't read the entire thread, my response was just to the comment made by yourself asking us as a forum which steel would be best. It could just be for information purposes, in which case I apologise. Otherwise I would have assumed when spending a large amount and with the reputation held; the decision would have been settled upon already.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

LOL, no for sure.. the steel choice is set (Swedish manufactured steels, Carbon and PM SS).
The question in that post was somewhat rhetorically asked.

Thanks, - Mike.
 
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