Struggling With Straights

IanM

IanM

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Once more I am dabbling in the world of straight razor shaving, but at the moment, my enthusiasm for it is, unfortunately, outweighing my success.

I've tried 4 different razors, and have one more to try, but they all seem to want to either pull my whiskers out or just stall completely, and I appear to have tried the usual stuff, such as:

Prep: I've tried the same prep as my normal DE shaves, and some 'super-prep' which has included hot wash cloths and hair conditioner.

Angles: Everything from flat-to-face to almost 90 degrees.

Pressure: From all most nothing to as much as I dare apply.

Stretching the skin: Yep, doing that, as I'm already in the habit of doing that when shaving with a DE.

I have had one very experienced shave say to me that's just how they are, and the reason that he doesn't straight shave is owing to the pulling. Can't really be right, can it? Is it possible that my beard is JUST TOO TOUGH?

It's almost like the blades are simply not sharp enough, but the razors are coming from a reputable UK honer (the wonderful Neil Miller), and they pass the hanging hair test.

Neil is being wonderfully helpful with all kinds of advice, but I just want to spread the net a little wider in case somebody can suggest something a bit "out of the box" that might just work.

Can anyone spot anything that I'm missing??

Thanks

Ian
 
Ian

I so wish I could help you with this, but you really do seem to have tried the things most experienced people would suggest. I have settled down to being an occasional straight shaver because I only really enjoy it if I have time on my hands which despite being retired, isn't often. I do hope you manage a breakthrough, because straight shaving is a satisfying experience even if it doesn't become your daily choice.
 
That must be very disappointing for you Ian. At first I experienced some tugging on the first pass, but somehow that seems to have disappeared which I tentatively put down to getting the angle right and better stropping. I really don't think that applying pressure is a good thing for all the usual reasons - what really seems to make a difference is a measure of confidence and keeping the blade moving. What has Neil said? I hope you make a breakthrough, but it sounds like it'll take some perseverence. I wish you all the best.
 
You could try just shaving a small area - about 1" square - somewhere easy, like a cheek. Make short - 5mm - buffing strokes at different angles. After a few strokes wipe the blade on your hand and check for bristles.

Some razors become a little smoother after a few shaves when freshly honed. Have you tried stropping with chromium oxide?
Or linen?

Are your razors all the same grind? Perhaps you don't have the "right" style of razor for your face. I know I can't get a really good shave from a very stiff blade.

I found that learning to shave with a straight was long periods of mediocre shaves with occasional breakthrough moments of sheer delight when I got something right.

Don't give up yet.
 
Please don’t give up.

I have a lot of razors and they all shave differently the only thing that is consistent with them is that when they come off the hones they are all a little harsh but after 10 to 15 shaves they smooth out. If they don’t get any better it might be your stropping technique that’s at fault you might be dulling the edge so they pull.

I have had a few razors off different guys to see the difference between what people call sharp I have had some that are fantastic and some that I class as dull. The only thing that I can say for sure is that Neil has done a lot of razors over the years and I am sure his are sharp. However I have heard Neil say the same about his razors that they shave better after a few shaves.

Try to shave just your sideburns for a few shaves to see if you can get that area to shave without any tugging then move on to the other areas. Under no circumstances use any pressure to shave the razor should glide over your face and cut the whiskers if you put pressure on you have a good chance of cutting yourself and getting razor burn.

One thing that I have also noticed is that different soaps and creams have an effect on how the razors feel on your face have you tried to use different products while using the same razor to see if that helps.

If all else fails I will lend you one of my razors to see if mine feel any differently. However I don’t think mine are any better than Neil’s so this would be as a last resort.

Exile
 
Thanks for the responses and encouragement chaps. It's appreciated.

The first razor that I tried from Neil was a 9/16 quarter hollow ground, which would be regarded as good for a beginner. Things didn't work out with that, so I returned it, and Neil has now sent me 3 razors of different sizes and grinds to try.

Obviously, I didn't know if my stropping was any good or not, but Neil has examined the razor that I returned and commented that the edge was in very good order, so it doesn't seem as though it is a stropping issue. The strop I have is from Neil, a on sided 3" bridal leather strop. I quite enjoy stropping. There's something quite medative about it.

Anyway, I've pretty much narrowed it down to 2 things: My beard is made of copper wire, or I'm getting something wrong somewhere.

The first one is not entirely stupid, as even when DE shaving, I have to use the sharper blades - swedes, 7 O'Clocks, Iridium etc. I can't use Derbys or Personnas or Lords etc - they pull.

The second possibility is a very real one. Maybe I need to kind of Gillette Slide the blade - but I'm a bit scared of doing that! Having read one of the replies, I wondered if I'm trying to use to much of the lenth of the edge.


Ian
 
The only time I use the full length of the blade is when going XTG on my left cheek with my right hand, and I need to use noticeably more "zero pressure" to cut anything. The rest of the time I use about 1/3 of the blade, sometimes the toe, sometimes the middle, and sometimes the heel.

Keep trying, what's the worst that could happen?
 
Hello guys,

We have been trying to sort this out for a while. Ian originally had one of my slightly less than quarter hollow grind sheffields, but as this did not do the business he is currently trying the following selection of three razors:

widths: just under 4/8 to about 6/8
grinds: quarter hollow to full hollow
steels: sheffield, german, soft to hard (the hardest being a 'silver' steel)

Ian sent the original back to me, and I can confirm that his stropping technique is not the issue - it still split hairs with ease all along the blade straight out of the box so he is an A1 stropper! I thought that maybe the sheffileld was too soft or that the blade was less keen than it should be, but I have shaved myself with the razor and it shaves me like a champ. Even if I had had an 'off day' it would be highly unusual to botch 4 in a row, all sent to the same person and all honed at different times on different stones!

Bikeboy: I usually finish freshly honed razors on a strop pasted with tin oxide (its just like chrome oxide), canvas, high-draw bridle leather and low draw tallow tan leather: each of these four have received that treatment.

I also examine the bevels under a 30x loupe to make sure that they are set properly, and use the usual tests during honing (TNT, TPT, arm hair) to ensure that the edge is keen, followed by the HHT at at least five places along the blade - if the razor doesn't pass this last test it goes back a couple of hones and is brought back up again until it does.

As Exile says, the blades should get smoother after a number of shaves (I reckon about three to five), mainly due to the stropping, but they should be plenty sharp enough right at the outset.

Like Arrowhead says, pressure isn't a good thing (providing you can differentiate between what is too little and what is too much).

So, in short, I'm stumped. Maybe it is just going to take time and perseverance. I'd hate to think that it is the honing that is at fault, and (correct me if I'm wrong, Ian) I seem to recall that you had the same problems with a razor from somebody else quite some time ago?

The thing that I keep coming back to is the angle, but Ian has tried all sorts of angles, so I suppose that is a blind avenue.

It's a pity you don't know any experienced straight shavers who could observe and offer some real-time advice (apart from the guy that told you he doesn't use straights anymore due to the pulling). I guess he is correct to a certain degree: if you compare straights with DEs they are going to have a totally different 'feel' and a slight pull or resistance is common on some areas, especially ATG, and usually takes a very long time and a lot of practice to overcome. The 'sound' is another thing - I have quite course bristles, and although some people describe their straight shaves as being soundless I have always experienced a sound of some sort, even though I have tried hundreds of razors and razors honed by respected honers over here and by Lyn in the US (and against which I have compared my edges and haven't found anything wanting).

Fingers crossed, though, that someone can suggest something - however off-the-wall it may seem, that can be of some help here!

Regards,
Neil
 
Hi Neil,

Thanks for the interjection. It explains some of the things that I couldn't.

I did try a straight from another source (joe mclaine actually) quite a while ago. It was a Wapi, and I couldn't get that to work for me either, but it was sharp enough for him to shave. He offered to take it back - top bloke that he is.

I am certain that it's a technique issue - I just have to find out what. If it is a technique issue, I'll tell you. If I'm being a cock, I have no problem with admitting it :)

Their is no doubt in my mind regarding the sharpness of these razors or Neil's ability, and I REALLY don't want any negativity from my experiences to reflect on Neil. The bloke is bending over backwards to help me find the right path.

I'm actually dying to get home tonight to try again!!

Ian
 
One thing to try is thinning your lather out a bit if I have it thick and creamy the razors don’t glide as well.

If I had to have a guess at what is wrong I would say angle of attack for the razor lay it flat to the face then lift the spine just a bit and try that. This is how I started but only on the cheeks till I felt happy.

With regards using the whole blade it depends on what I’m shaving if it’s my cheeks I use as much of it as I can but round my chin and top lip I use about ¼ of the blade.

Graham
 
Okay,

I have just emerged from the bathroom, and I bring glad tidings.

I used a different approach this evening, and used a much lighter touch than usual - my hand felt almost like I was lifting the razor away from my face, instead of holding it against it, and this seemed to make things much better.

The first pass was, of course, WTG, and I shaved my cheeks, some of my chin and some of my neck. After that, I did another WTG pass, and XTG pass and then a quick run around with an Injector to tidy things up.

No blood, and I can't (yet, it may come later - sometimes does) feel any burn.

So, my best straight shave so far. Maybe we've found the problem.

Ian
 
IanM said:
Okay,

I have just emerged from the bathroom, and I bring glad tidings.

I used a different approach this evening, and used a much lighter touch than usual - my hand felt almost like I was lifting the razor away from my face, instead of holding it against it, and this seemed to make things much better.

The first pass was, of course, WTG, and I shaved my cheeks, some of my chin and some of my neck. After that, I did another WTG pass, and XTG pass and then a quick run around with an Injector to tidy things up.

No blood, and I can't (yet, it may come later - sometimes does) feel any burn.

So, my best straight shave so far. Maybe we've found the problem.

Ian
Click to expand...

That's excellent news! Light at the end of the tunnel for sure!

Regards,
Neil
 
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