Closed Pass Around: Rocnel SE-G (GEM/FHS blade) razor - Finished

Greetings

I was at last starting to get positive thoughts about a new generation SE razor but after reading what you have discovered in such a short time I will definitely give this one (this first model at least) a miss.

Putting a blade into a OCMM (a 1930 razor) takes one second, closing the razor takes one second more!! It looks like not much progress has been made in ease of use in over eighty years. :eek:

Regards
Dick.
 
Would you like to tell us who are not on ATG about these interesting twists... Please, I am certainly interested to hear all I can about this razor before I decide to buy or no. Thank you.
Sure. I'll try to keep it brief.
Some people have reported that loading/removing the blade is difficult, as it doesn't run in and move to and fro as readily as the video shows. Another new owner reports that his blade (one out of the 10 supplied with the razor) loads and moves freely and exactly as the video.
I have tried a blade out of my old stock bought about 3 years ago, and also one of the 10, and have found that the blades load perfectly when they face one way, but not the other way around. In other words, the spine on the blades differ. The view that I and others have is that this is down to how the aluminium spine is crimped on, and that there are possible minor variances between supposedly identical blades arising at manufacture. This is something already known and recognised with these blades, but is not important with the old Gem razor models where the blade is loaded and held completely differently from the Rocnel method.

Today, I took all 10 blades from the dispenser, and unwrapped about two dozen more from my previous supply, and tried every one in my Rocnel. Some will load with the blade facing either way, and of the rest, all will load, run and unload freely one way, even if they won't the other. They have therefore all been completely usable and trouble-free to load, and my view is that there are no shortcomings in the razor itself.

I personally don't feel this to be a problem, but more of a minor temporary inconvenience which takes a second or two to overcome. I like the razor very much, after 3 days using it, and can't honestly find any fault with it. Now I know a bit more about how it and its consumable interact, I'm even happier.

The pass-arounds will doubtless provide more insights, as will the experiences of other people like myself who went straight to purchase. I have no idea how many of these are now out in the wide world, but, as they are a premium-priced article, there probably aren't that many as yet.

I hope this helps.
 
Sure. I'll try to keep it brief.
Some people have reported that loading/removing the blade is difficult, as it doesn't run in and move to and fro as readily as the video shows. Another new owner reports that his blade (one out of the 10 supplied with the razor) loads and moves freely and exactly as the video.
I have tried a blade out of my old stock bought about 3 years ago, and also one of the 10, and have found that the blades load perfectly when they face one way, but not the other way around. In other words, the spine on the blades differ. The view that I and others have is that this is down to how the aluminium spine is crimped on, and that there are possible minor variances between supposedly identical blades arising at manufacture. This is something already known and recognised with these blades, but is not important with the old Gem razor models where the blade is loaded and held completely differently from the Rocnel method.

Today, I took all 10 blades from the dispenser, and unwrapped about two dozen more from my previous supply, and tried every one in my Rocnel. Some will load with the blade facing either way, and of the rest, all will load, run and unload freely one way, even if they won't the other. They have therefore all been completely usable and trouble-free to load, and my view is that there are no shortcomings in the razor itself.

I personally don't feel this to be a problem, but more of a minor temporary inconvenience which takes a second or two to overcome. I like the razor very much, after 3 days using it, and can't honestly find any fault with it. Now I know a bit more about how it and its consumable interact, I'm even happier.

The pass-arounds will doubtless provide more insights, as will the experiences of other people like myself who went straight to purchase. I have no idea how many of these are now out in the wide world, but, as they are a premium-priced article, there probably aren't that many as yet.

I hope this helps.
Yes, thankyou very much indeed, I will be using this razor on the pass around so will make up my mind as to if I'm going to purchase one or wait for the next offering from who knows?! I want to like it, it's well over due :) Thanks again.
 
Day 6 - Shave 5
  • Calani Iberische Sonne soap
  • MÜHLE 25mm synthetic brush
  • Rocnel SE-G
  • GEM blade (3.5)
  • Alum block
  • Cella Colonia Classica
  • 4711 Portugal EdC

The plan:

Same as yesterday: Use the same GEM blade in the Rocnel and 1912 on alternating passes.

The reality:

The blade that went into Rocnel so smoothly yesterday had been used last week inside a 1912 in a shave-off with a PAL carbon blade in another 1912. It did 5 half shaves last week, so it is now on shave 3.5.
The first pass went really well. The blade was again "assertive" rather than "aggressive". It went so well indeed that my plan went straight out of the window and I decided to do the entire shave with the Rocnel.
Read my first shave report for details. It was another enjoyable and very close shave. Not the slightest nick this time. My 1912 probably gives a smoother shave, but I'm not sure if it can compete on closeness. Excellent.
I have noticed though, that the Rocnel is very "front-heavy". If I hold the razor in my hand with the blade edge pointing upwards, the head has a tendency to roll the razor until the front of the head points downwards. My 1912 doesn't show that behaviour, certainly not when attached to the long stainless steel handle. It's not a big issue, but the balance of the Rocnel is not perfect.
Other than that, I was very pleased with today's shave. I will refrain from shaving with the Rocnel if the blade shows any sign of struggle to go in. I think that's the secret with the Rocnel.
I'll see if one of my Treet carbon blades fits nicely and might try that next or I'll have another shave with the blade currently in the Rocnel. I'll find out tomorrow.
To be continued…
 
Yes, thankyou very much indeed, I will be using this razor on the pass around so will make up my mind as to if I'm going to purchase one or wait for the next offering from who knows?! I want to like it, it's well over due :) Thanks again.
That sounds a good plan.

Interesting thought that we spend a lot of time considering the pros and cons of DE and AC blades which are flat steel and made by similar methods. It's not surprising that a flat and sharp stainless Gem blade which then has an aluminium spine crimped on as an extra might have some variability.

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk
 
Day 7 - Shave #6
  • Speick Men shaving cream
  • MÜHLE 25mm synthetic brush
  • Rocnel SE-G
  • GEM blade (4.5)
  • Alum block
  • Speick Men ASL
  • Speick Men EdT
Not much to report. Same blade as yesterday. Just as good.
The blade is far from finished, but I'll try a Treet carbon blade tomorrow - putting it into the Rocnel worked like a treet ;)
To be continued…
 
Day 8 - Shave #7
  • Faena Mastic soap
  • MÜHLE 25mm synthetic brush
  • Rocnel SE-G
  • Treet carbon blade (1)
  • Alum block
  • Tüff Sensitiv ASL
  • Faena Mastic ASL
My first shave with a Treet carbon steel SE blade, so this a report on both - the razor and the blade. The blade went into the Rocnel SE-G head without a hitch, but I found out later that I was lucky. It doesn't go in easily from the other side of the head (the head is asymmetrical I'm told) and it went in less smooth from the "correct" side with the spine the other way up.
It's a summery day today, so I'll use Faena Mastic shaving soap - a Greek island holiday in a tub. Wonderful stuff.
I won't bore with details, but this was an amazing shave. I could feel the blade slice through stubble as if it were butter - only louder. The Treet blade was both fiercely sharp and wonderfully smooth. No nicks, just relentless whacking of whiskers. I so need to try this blade in a 1912. Four passes later I'm smooth as can be.
The next surprise was the alum block. It had been on the window sill in the sun all morning and it was hot. This is so weird and it took me a few seconds to figure out what was going on. There was hardly any sting from the alum.
The plan was to use Faena Mastic ASL to go with the soap. It claims to contain alcohol, but that is negligible. I wanted to know what a proper alcoholic ASL would have to say, so I picked Tüff Sensitiv (green), as it is pretty much unscented and wouldn't interfere with the mastic afterwards. Again, I was surprised by the lack of sting.
To conclude - this razor gives wonderful shaves. I'm pretty impressed. The trick is to avoid blades that don't go in smoothly. Insert them from the "correct" side and try to flip them over if they don't fit at first. Every time I did that I had a marvellous shave.
The Treet blade impressed me as well. The problem is that it is made from carbon steel and will rust if left wet in the razor. Drying the blade is a matter of seconds in a 1912, but a bit of a procedure with the Rocnel. Observation: the set screw is too long, but it won't disappear down the handle, even if you try.
I could try a Feather blade in the Rocnel, but I think the idea is misguided and I won't.
There will be another shave with the Treet tomorrow, then I will have to let go... @Looney12345, please PM me your address.
To be continued…
 
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A picture of the head in profile:

RocnelProfile.jpg

 
Day 9 - Shave #8 - Last shave
  • Lea Mentolada shaving cream
  • MÜHLE 25mm synthetic brush
  • Rocnel SE-G
  • Treet carbon blade (2)
  • Alum block
  • Alcolado Glacial
It's just over 30℃ out there and I'm in need of cooling down. Lea Mentolada is the only mentholated soap or cream I have left, but it is good stuff on a hot day.
The Treet blade went into the Rocnel easily again, but I was lacking concentration.
Right on the first pass, when shaving close to my nose I noticed that something was wrong. I hadn't centred the blade properly and the corner of the edge was protruding ever so slightly. I was lucky to notice this before I sliced my nose.
Unscrew the handle, loosen the set screw, adjust the blade, tighten the set screw, put the handle back on. There must be a better way.
As for the shave, there is not much new to report. I'm now getting consistently excellent shaves with the Rocnel. The Treet blade is very good and I can't wait to try it in my 1912 tomorrow. The razor is a joy to use, but I still think it is a bit too heavy. That is strange, as my 1912 with a long stainless steel handle weighs almost the same, but the longer handle and lighter head give it a completely different balance.
¡Alcolado Glacial! That's the after shave for summer. My face is freezing cold.
That was it for my shaves with the Rocnel SE-G. I'll pass the razor on tomorrow. My final overall verdict will follow later.
To be continued…
 
Rocnel SE-G - The Verdict

I've been asking for it for ages - a modern razor for GEM blades. Rocnel has delivered and others are coming soon. Was I right to demand one? Am I happy with it? I've had the razor for more than a week and have come to a conclusion. Let's have a look at the good, the bad and the ugly.
(I'll be referring to my British made Ever-Ready 1912 occasionally as this is the razor I use most.)

Packaging.
Fine. Who cares?

Looks
No. It's not ugly. Far from it. I like its looks a lot. Rocnel have come up with an original design that shows that they (mostly) understand SE blades. Have a look at the other GEM SE razors in the making - boring and uninspired. Top cap and base plate are for DE razors. I don't want to see a blade post through an SE blade. The other GEM blade razors I've seen have started with a DE razor and adapted the concept to GEM blades. Rocnel have started with the GEM blade and designed the razor around that. They have come up with something novel and I like it. It's actually the only one of the GEM blade razors coming out this year, that I like the looks of. Does it look as good as a vintage SE razor? Certainly not. While my 1912 is not made from stainless steel, it's made from timeless style.

Material and finish
Stainless steel. Yes, I do get why people love it, but I think it's just too heavy as a material for razors. I think the Rocnel would be better in aluminium, but I'm probably alone with that opinion.
The razor looks good in black and I can't fault the finish, but I'm easy to please.

Choice of blades
GEM style blades. I love them. Sharp, yet smooth, nice and rigid. About time they made a revival. Feather AC blades in modern razors are too wide for my taste. Injector blades are for injectors and DE blades are flimsy.
Rocnel claim that you can use Feather FHS blades as well. I disagree. The Rocnel SE-G doesn't have blade stops. The GEM blades are correctly exposed by their depth, but with Feather blades you have to guess where to put the blade edge and fix it with the set screw. If the Feather blades were amazing, I'd be tempted to do this at least once, but they are rubbish anyway.
I have tried both GEM PTFE coated blades and Treet carbon blades. Both gave good shaves, but the carbon blades need to be removed and dried after each use, which makes them less convenient.

Blade loading
What were they thinking? This is the weak point of the razor. I have several issues with loading a blade into the Rocnel SE-G. First of all the slot for the spine of the blade is too narrow. GEM style SE blades don't have a precision spine. It's a piece of sheet metal crimped onto the back of the blade. The thickness of the spine varies from blade to blade and across the width of each spine. The slot for the spine of the blade is too narrow for some blades I have tried. Vintage stropping blades have a spine twice as thick and won't fit at all - I admit that this is an unusual use case.
Also, it is easier to insert the blade from one side of the head than it is from the other. Apparently the head design is not completely symmetrical. WHY? I can't for the life of me think of a single reason why this should be the case.
Even when the blade goes in smoothly, I find it slightly difficult to hit the slot with the blade when I'm not wearing reading glasses.
You also have to make sure that the blade is nicely centred before tightening the set screw, otherwise the corner of the blade can protrude ever so slightly from the head and cause injury when shaving close to the nose. I was almost caught out by this, but noticed something was amiss before damage was done.
Lastly, I can see why they went for the set screw design, but I don't like it. Loosening and tightening the screw by hand every time I change a blade is awkward. Maybe the screw should be part of the handle, maybe not, but there must be a better solution than manually twisting a set screw by its threads.

The shave
This is what it is all about and this is where the Rocnel shines. Once the blade is properly in the head - and it's not as difficult as it seems after reading the above - the Rocnel will give shaves that are up there with the best. The shave is very assertive, bordering on aggressive. Lots of people like aggressive. There is more blade feel than I'm used to from my 1912 and it shows in the result. For me, the 1912 is incredibly smooth, much smoother than the Rocnel, but the 1912 can't compete when it comes to closeness of shave. I wish the Rocnel was a bit lighter and I'm not a big fan of its balance. The balance between handle and head is fine, but the head is front-heavy. The head wants to point downwards. It's not a big problem though, just a little niggle.
If you're used to vintage SE razors you will have no issues finding the correct angle. Keep the top of the head (the wide bit, covering the blade) flat on your face and you're pretty much there. That's as it should be with SE razors.
The audible feedback of the Rocnel is interesting. Apart from the sound of stubble being mowed down, there isn't any. None of that "buttering toast" nonsense people like about their vintage SE razors - that's blade chatter, because a modern GEM blade has a thinner spine than the original stropping blades. No blade chatter with the Rocnel - the blade is rock solid inside the head. A major benefit of the head design and the stainless steel solidness.
Most of the time I was left with a shave so close that I could easily have skipped a shave the next day. Even 6-8 hours after the shave my face felt nice and smooth.

The price
The Rocnel, even with forum discount, costs £200. Take a breather and let that sink in.
£200+
That's a bit on the expensive side. Some of you guys won't blink an eye before spending that kind of money on the latest and greatest stainless steel razor, but I can't help thinking that I can buy 20 (in words: twenty) vintage razors like the 1912 for that. I think I paid £8 for my favourite one. Boxed - lovely bakelite box. For £200 I expect to buy a boxed sun-ray 1912 set and have some change left.

How does it compare to my Ever-Ready 1912?
The Rocnel wins when it comes to closeness of the shave. That's impressive, as - for me - the 1912 gives me shaves that are very close, but with more effort.
The 1912 wins in pretty much every other aspect: Looks, smoothness, weight, balance, blade loading, blade seating and last but not least price.
Every single criticism I have about the Rocnel has already been addressed. In 1909, by August William Scheuber in ↪his patent for the 1912. If you have a 1912, read the patent with the razor in your hand and marvel at the details. If you want to design a GEM blade razor, do the same, try to find room for improvement and weep. There are actually only two improvements I can think of to bring the 1912 into the 21st century: Add an M5x0.8 screw to the head and incline the blade platform slightly, so that no shim is needed.

To sum it all up...
This is a very good razor. Make the slot for the spine slightly larger, make it from aluminium, find a better solution for the set screw and drop the price by a lot and it would be an exceptional razor. If you don't like the idea of vintage razors, this could be the razor for you. I'd happily swap this for any of my DE razors and I do have some nice ones - not a single stainless steel one though. I'd rather buy the Rocnel than any stainless steel DE or Feather AC blade razor I've tried. But as it stands I'll stick with my vintage GEM SE razors. I'll shave in style.

Thanks, @Paul for enabling this pass around. I really enjoyed it.
Time to pass the Rocnel on to @Looney12345
 
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The razor is now with @Looney12345
  1. sɐǝɹpu∀ / riverrun (ATG/TSR)
  2. Looney12345 (ATG/TSR)
  3. Mikey J (ATG)
  4. Mr_Smartepants (ATG/TSR)
  5. Mr Bigmem (ATG/TSR)
  6. p.b (ATG/TSR)
  7. Barry Giddens (TSR)
  8. Blademonkey (TSR)
  9. Luckypip (TSR)
  10. MPH (ATG/TSR)
  11. Bizzyberry (ATG/TSR)
  12. AndyMc133 (TSR)
  13. Rowlers (ATG/TSR)
  14. The Geordie Shaver (TSR)
  15. Glenn_Lee (TSR)
  16. Wayne (ATG)
  17. shevsky (TSR)
  18. You?
The list is open.
Legend: Waiting, Currently with, Completed
 
Day 9 - Shave #8 - Last shave
  • Lea Mentolada shaving cream
  • MÜHLE 25mm synthetic brush
  • Rocnel SE-G
  • Treet carbon blade (2)
  • Alum block
  • Alcolado Glacial
It's just over 30℃ out there and I'm in need of cooling down. Lea Mentolada is the only mentholated soap or cream I have left, but it is good stuff on a hot day.
The Treet blade went into the Rocnel easily again, but I was lacking concentration.
Right on the first pass, when shaving close to my nose I noticed that something was wrong. I hadn't centred the blade properly and the corner of the edge was protruding ever so slightly. I was lucky to notice this before I sliced my nose.
Unscrew the handle, loosen the set screw, adjust the blade, tighten the set screw, put the handle back on. There must be a better way.
As for the shave, there is not much new to report. I'm now getting consistently excellent shaves with the Rocnel. The Treet blade is very good and I can't wait to try it in my 1912 tomorrow. The razor is a joy to use, but I still think it is a bit too heavy. That is strange, as my 1912 with a long stainless steel handle weighs almost the same, but the longer handle and lighter head give it a completely different balance.
¡Alcolado Glacial! That's the after shave for summer. My face is freezing cold.
That was it for my shaves with the Rocnel SE-G. I'll pass the razor on tomorrow. My final overall verdict will follow later.
To be continued…
Re: centring the blade. I've found the most workable method is to load the blade,and then pinch the blade spine ends and razor top gently but evenly together. This evens out any overhang either side.

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk
 
Re: centring the blade. I've found the most workable method is to load the blade,and then pinch the blade spine ends and razor top gently but evenly together. This evens out any overhang either side.
It does, but my 1912s don't need that procedure - just saying :p
 
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