Hones, Help!
- Thread starter Proinsias
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A phone call to Ray Iles will be worth your while: mind you, you'll be talking for a long time:Proinsias said:
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He generally has a large selection of old stones, including WoA, Charnley Forest, maybe a Turkey if you're lucky.
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I wish you luck with the WoA! Not very common these days - one just went for around $80 on SRD though - usually, the american prices aren't that much different to ours, but with a "pound" sign in the front, so I expect you'd pay from £50 to £80 for a decent sized one (unless Ray has one - didnt the last time I talked to him). You are right about them being comparable in grit size to the MST thuringians (8,000 - 10,000 grit) - with the usual caveats about assigning grit size to a natural stone, but I reckon they are slower in use, as most people who have both rarely use the WoA - or so I have read. The Tams are much more common, but coarser.
Regards,
Neil
Regards,
Neil
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I think I could listen to Neil talk about stones all day and not get bored.
Digging up this old thread to get some honing advice for a beginner.
If you have a King combination 1000/6000K and two Naniwa super stones, one 8000 and one 12000. How would you approach honing a razor that needs to establish a bevel? I dropped the razor, and now parts of the edge doesn't feel smooth when I do the thumb pad test. How many laps are required on each grit, and how do you test the edge as you go?
If you have a King combination 1000/6000K and two Naniwa super stones, one 8000 and one 12000. How would you approach honing a razor that needs to establish a bevel? I dropped the razor, and now parts of the edge doesn't feel smooth when I do the thumb pad test. How many laps are required on each grit, and how do you test the edge as you go?
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I would imagine that you'll get some professional advice before long; in the meantime you you might find this page interesting (it might come up in German, but there's an English version in the drop down menu):
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This is pretty close to how I've been going about things, which was nice to find out. Back to the 1000 grit, I'm afraid, to set the bevel. A jewellers loupe is handy for checking when to stop: you'll see an evenly finished bevel and no light reflected from the edge itself ... failing that, it'll shave your arm from the 1000 grit hone when the bevel is set. The same general advice holds true for the finer stones when you can start playing around with other sharpness tests. If you haven't seen the following articles, you'll either find them a boon, or they'll drive you to distraction:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.coticule.be/straight-razor-honing.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.coticule.be/straight-razor-honing.html</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://fine-razors.de/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=7&Itemid=9&lang=english" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://fine-razors.de/index.php?option= ... ng=english</a><!-- m -->
This is pretty close to how I've been going about things, which was nice to find out. Back to the 1000 grit, I'm afraid, to set the bevel. A jewellers loupe is handy for checking when to stop: you'll see an evenly finished bevel and no light reflected from the edge itself ... failing that, it'll shave your arm from the 1000 grit hone when the bevel is set. The same general advice holds true for the finer stones when you can start playing around with other sharpness tests. If you haven't seen the following articles, you'll either find them a boon, or they'll drive you to distraction:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.coticule.be/straight-razor-honing.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.coticule.be/straight-razor-honing.html</a><!-- m -->
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Hello Sigurd!
You should really get yourself a high-powered loupe or magnifying glass - 20x - 30x would be ideal. Then you can assess what the damage actually is.
Quoting how may laps you need to remove the damage is a bit like guessing how long a bit of string is, though! If you have a major chip to the edge (something as small as 1/2 a mm is quite big) then you will need to do a lot of laps. And I do mean a lot on the 1000 grit. The trouble is, in doing that you are still honing the parts of the blade that do not have any damage and you risk over-honing those parts and creating a wire-edge. If I have to deal with anything from 1/2 to 1 mm I will lightly draw the bevel evenly over the coarse hone (I use a diamond plate) to evenly blunt it throughout its length. Then, to avoid over-flattening the spine I tape it (1 or 2 layers of electrical tape) and hone until the bevel is set again, replacing the tape as necessary. You can tell when the bevel is set by moistening your thumbnail and drawing the blade lightly over it - if it seems to skip/bite/skip you have damage, possibly from bits breaking off from over-honing, if it glides smoothly over your thumb it is blunt, if it tries to dig in and stay there you are ready to move to the next hone. Only try this test with stones up to 1000 grit, though - it is too blunt a test for anything finer and will damage the edge. You should test along the length of the blade - all parts have to pass the test.
If you create a wire edge, back-hone (spine first) for 3 or 4 laps, then hone normally for a few laps and examine the edge. Make sure all the craggy bits have gone. If backhoning does not do it, you can give a few normal laps on a coarser hone, or gently draw the edge through a bit of cork or over a matchstick.
Once the bevel is set you are just refining it. Hone until you pass the TPT test - Thumb Pad Test. Moisten ball of the thumb and lightly draw it down the blade. The blade should feel "sticky" - that is, it is trying to bite into your thumb. If you are too nervous for that, shave arm hair instead - it should shave without any force being applied. Then move onto the next hone. TPT from now on.
The greatest amount of laps will be on 1000 grit if there is damage, and you will need quite a lot on the 6000 grit because of the comparatively large jump between it and the 1000. On the Naniwas, maybe 30 or 40 full laps on each should do it. Some people say 20 is enough, some go for more than 40. You need a light hand and constant testing.
Regards,
Neil
You should really get yourself a high-powered loupe or magnifying glass - 20x - 30x would be ideal. Then you can assess what the damage actually is.
Quoting how may laps you need to remove the damage is a bit like guessing how long a bit of string is, though! If you have a major chip to the edge (something as small as 1/2 a mm is quite big) then you will need to do a lot of laps. And I do mean a lot on the 1000 grit. The trouble is, in doing that you are still honing the parts of the blade that do not have any damage and you risk over-honing those parts and creating a wire-edge. If I have to deal with anything from 1/2 to 1 mm I will lightly draw the bevel evenly over the coarse hone (I use a diamond plate) to evenly blunt it throughout its length. Then, to avoid over-flattening the spine I tape it (1 or 2 layers of electrical tape) and hone until the bevel is set again, replacing the tape as necessary. You can tell when the bevel is set by moistening your thumbnail and drawing the blade lightly over it - if it seems to skip/bite/skip you have damage, possibly from bits breaking off from over-honing, if it glides smoothly over your thumb it is blunt, if it tries to dig in and stay there you are ready to move to the next hone. Only try this test with stones up to 1000 grit, though - it is too blunt a test for anything finer and will damage the edge. You should test along the length of the blade - all parts have to pass the test.
If you create a wire edge, back-hone (spine first) for 3 or 4 laps, then hone normally for a few laps and examine the edge. Make sure all the craggy bits have gone. If backhoning does not do it, you can give a few normal laps on a coarser hone, or gently draw the edge through a bit of cork or over a matchstick.
Once the bevel is set you are just refining it. Hone until you pass the TPT test - Thumb Pad Test. Moisten ball of the thumb and lightly draw it down the blade. The blade should feel "sticky" - that is, it is trying to bite into your thumb. If you are too nervous for that, shave arm hair instead - it should shave without any force being applied. Then move onto the next hone. TPT from now on.
The greatest amount of laps will be on 1000 grit if there is damage, and you will need quite a lot on the 6000 grit because of the comparatively large jump between it and the 1000. On the Naniwas, maybe 30 or 40 full laps on each should do it. Some people say 20 is enough, some go for more than 40. You need a light hand and constant testing.
Regards,
Neil
