Baili (BD177) Twist To Open DE Razor

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I wanted to post a brief review of the Baili (BD177) TTO DE razor - or to give it it's official name the BAILI Twist Butterfly Open Classic DE Razor (BD177) - especially as many reviews are often for razors aimed at a different market.

The Baili TTO (BD177) retails for under £10 delivered on Baili's official webstore on AliExpress and is also sold on EBay and Amazon under many other names. Razorock also sells the razor under its own branding. Prices vary considerably. I have always found delivery from China via Aliexpress quick and reliable and the razor arrived within one week of ordering. The razor is also available with a chrome / silver finish (BD179).

From SOTD posts some members are already familiar with and clearly love this razor but I remain surprised that it does not get more praise. I appreciate the vogue for polished stainless steel, brass or titanium razors and for many, the fact the Baili TTO razor is Zamak, made in China and inexpensive will be enough to rule it out. That would be a shame as It is a great shaver - upper-end of mild to medium efficiency; intuitive to use, smooth, well balanced and weighted. No learning curve is required for the Baili BD177 if you have used a DE before - no extreme angles or “negative pressure” is required either and it shaved well with a variety of blades. The razor glides over the skin with ease and is an exemplar of excellent razor glide - no drag here.

The Baili TTO weighs in at 72g and the handle length is just over 85mm (all approximate via kitchen scales and ruler). The blade tabs are covered. The balance point resides in the upper 1/3 of the razor handle. Knurling is fine and the handle has sufficient grip. Auditory and tactile feedback is good when cutting the whiskers. The blade is held securely enough and blade alignment is excellent. Being a TTO the head size is not the slimmest but it also certainly not larger than many standard 3-piece DE's either. The razor is agile in use and I was able to shave under my large nose without effort.

The quality of the plating is well above average and certainly superior to Merkur's (not difficult, I know) as were the tolerances. The bay doors are smooth in operation and well aligned. The blade bed appears flat and is well finished. Any negatives? The TTO mechanism sounds a little jingly jangly and benefits from some mineral oil although if you are using a shaving soap loaded with oils or shea butter the residue from a few shaves will probably silence the mechanism. The bay doors and bay door pins could probably be more substantial and do not expect the TTO twist knob to have a perfectly weighted, progressive, damped action as you would find on your Japanese Hi-Fi separate or for millennials your German vehicles switch-gear or Gen Z your game consoles controller :).

I have been using the Baili TTO (BD177) for daily head and face shaves and can say it has been a delight to use - the geometry is good. I have had a few misses with some polished SS and Brass DE's this year and I have just wondered how some razor artisan settle on a razors geometry, balance point and weight. Baili got the geometry, balance and weight right on this one and new or experienced shavers alike will appreciate the shave it gives. The razor looks great to my eyes and exceeded my expectations (admittedly low) in terms of fit, finish and quality. It comes in a very handy, hard plastic case with a mirror and space for a tuck of blades. The case itself is super practical and worth the money on it's own.
 
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Great review. Thanks. I got a Bali 3 piece. But think it was a fake. Only cost me 1.99. When it came the head seemed very thin and light weight. The guard angles were off, leaving the blade at a strange angle. I tried a shave with it but it was like dragging a razor blade at right angles to my cheek seemed more painful than effective. I ended up throwing the head and keeping the handle to use on another head I had. But the handle wasn't much better in build.. Has a clear casting seem on it and some little bits of plating sticking off.
I'm hoping to replace that handle ASAP.
So I'm glad that Bali have a good rep elsewhere.
 
Great review. Thanks. I got a Bali 3 piece. But think it was a fake. Only cost me 1.99. When it came the head seemed very thin and light weight. The guard angles were off, leaving the blade at a strange angle. I tried a shave with it but it was like dragging a razor blade at right angles to my cheek seemed more painful than effective. I ended up throwing the head and keeping the handle to use on another head I had. But the handle wasn't much better in build.. Has a clear casting seem on it and some little bits of plating sticking off.
I'm hoping to replace that handle ASAP.
So I'm glad that Bali have a good rep elsewhere.
Ouch!
 
Great review. Thanks. I got a Bali 3 piece. But think it was a fake. Only cost me 1.99. When it came the head seemed very thin and light weight. The guard angles were off, leaving the blade at a strange angle. I tried a shave with it but it was like dragging a razor blade at right angles to my cheek seemed more painful than effective. I ended up throwing the head and keeping the handle to use on another head I had. But the handle wasn't much better in build.. Has a clear casting seem on it and some little bits of plating sticking off.
I'm hoping to replace that handle ASAP.
So I'm glad that Bali have a good rep elsewhere.

Baili made some changes a few years ago and perhaps you had one of their old ones whereas the top cap does not extend to cover the blade end tabs(?). The new ones do and give a DFS effortlessly. Search Baili BD176.
 
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I wanted to post a brief review of the Baili (BD177) TTO DE razor - or to give it it's official name the BAILI Twist Butterfly Open Classic DE Razor (BD177) - especially as many reviews are often for razors aimed at a different market.

The Baili TTO (BD177) retails for under £10 delivered on Baili's official webstore on AliExpress and is also sold on EBay and Amazon under many other names. Razorock also sells the razor under its own branding. Prices vary considerably. I have always found delivery from China via Aliexpress quick and reliable and the razor arrived within one week of ordering. The razor is also available with a chrome / silver finish (BD179).

From SOTD posts some members are already familiar with and clearly love this razor but I remain surprised that it does not get more praise. I appreciate the vogue for polished stainless steel, brass or titanium razors and for many, the fact the Baili TTO razor is Zamak, made in China and inexpensive will be enough to rule it out. That would be a shame as It is a great shaver - upper-end of mild to medium efficiency; intuitive to use, smooth, well balanced and weighted. No learning curve is required for the Baili BD177 if you have used a DE before - no extreme angles or “negative pressure†is required either and it shaved well with a variety of blades. The razor glides over the skin with ease and is an exemplar of excellent razor glide - no drag here.

The Baili TTO weighs in at 72g and the handle length is just over 85mm (all approximate via kitchen scales and ruler). The blade tabs are covered. The balance point resides in the upper 1/3 of the razor handle. Knurling is fine and the handle has sufficient grip. Auditory and tactile feedback is good when cutting the whiskers. The blade is held securely enough and blade alignment is excellent. Being a TTO the head size is not the slimmest but it also certainly not larger than many standard 3-piece DE's either. The razor is agile in use and I was able to shave under my large nose without effort.

The quality of the plating is well above average and certainly superior to Merkur's (not difficult, I know) as were the tolerances. The bay doors are smooth in operation and well aligned. The blade bed appears flat and is well finished. Any negatives? The TTO mechanism sounds a little jingly jangly and benefits from some mineral oil although if you are using a shaving soap loaded with oils or shea butter the residue from a few shaves will probably silence the mechanism. The bay doors and bay door pins could probably be more substantial and do not expect the TTO twist knob to have a perfectly weighted, progressive, damped action as you would find on your Japanese Hi-Fi separate or for millennials your German vehicles switch-gear or Gen Z your game consoles controller :).

I have been using the Baili TTO (BD177) for daily head and face shaves and can say it has been a delight to use - the geometry is good. I have had a few misses with some polished SS and Brass DE's this year and I have just wondered how some razor artisan settle on a razors geometry, balance point and weight. Baili got the geometry, balance and weight right on this one and new or experienced shavers alike will appreciate the shave it gives. The razor looks great to my eyes and exceeded my expectations (admittedly low) in terms of fit, finish and quality. It comes in a very handy, hard plastic case with a mirror and space for a tuck of blades. The case itself is super practical and worth the money on it's own.

A fine review, with which I mostly agree.

Perhaps someone here can satisfy a point of curiosity I have had for some years:

If you have an early 1940s closed comb Gillette Aristocrat, perhaps you could compare the head to the Baili BD177/179. Do the blade gap and the blade extension match?

I have heard that the early 40s version was a bit more aggressive than the late 1940s Aristocrat. The Baili is an almost exact replica of the late 1940s Aristocrat head (though obviously not the handle), except that the Gillette is milder due to the lesser gap and extension -- too mild for me.

I had assumed that Baili tweaked the geometry of the 1948 Aristocrat, until I heard about the Gillette design shift. However, finding a pre-war Aristocrat is not easy, or even some detailed closeup photos. I think Gillette primarily made Techs during the war. I have no desire to buy another old Aristocrat just to look at.

Yes, the TTO handle mechanism is rattily when open, but I think that is by design so there is room for it to dry more easily; I leave the head loose after using it. There is absolutely no rattle or play once you close the butterfly mechanism, which is what counts. I think it would be better to keep the razor clean and dry than to attempt to "coat" the inside of the handle with shaving soap. This might eventually eat into the zamak, and it certainly would be unsanitary after 10 years.

If you don't immerse the whole razor in water/soap, it should be easy to keep clean. Just rinse off the head, shake it, and blot/wipe dry the head. The irony of butterfly razors is that they were invented to make it easier to remove and dry old carbon steel blades. But it is far harder to dry and clean the razor, itself, than three-piece DE razors. I consider them gimmicky, and this is the only butterfly razor I use, because it does shave so well.

I showed this razor to some engineering students, who, after putting their heads together, proceeded to disassemble the handle. I have forgotten how they did it. Perhaps there is a compression ring inside the handle.

Personally, I find an "intuitive" right-angle approach to the BD177 results in a mediocre shave. But with a very sharp blade and a very shallow angle the shave is excellent: fast, smooth, even, with no razor burn. This puts it close to par with a Merkur, though the Merkur shaves a bit closer. However, it is "intuitive" in the sense that a novice can get an adequate shave even with poor technique.

I assumed when I bought it that Baili was one of Personna/ ASR's several labels in China. The Baili razor blades said "made in America" in Chinese on the packaging, which would be ASR. However, even their best, the Platinum+, was not very good -- too mild, and way over-priced. However, perhaps there was a connection at the time that contributed to the Baili razor designs.

As to the finish on Merkur razors, it looks fine to me. Going back to the older production with the curved logo lettering, I've seen the zamak wasn't always fully polished on the sides before being plated, but this has no effect on the shave. And there are plenty of 50-60 year old Merkur razors for sale online that probably still provide a good shave, despite the deterioration of the finish.

As to the use of zamak on the Baili, I would rather have this than the brass or whatever it is on a vintage Gillette TTO. Zamak is reasonably tough. If you drop it, either nothing happens or it breaks. Zamak doesn't bend like brass, resulting in an out of alignment head, guard, and who knows what inside. Nevertheless, don't drop it, and don't use it in the shower, newbies!

Also, the end tabs are not exposed on my 10-year-old Baili. I doubt they ever were on this model, as it uses an alignment bar rather than pins, so there is no need for exposed tabs to adjust the alignment.

There are some rebadged Bailis for sale that can be recognized by the distinctive side profile -- CVS and Walmart have sold some, for example. And you might still be able to get this razor cheap from some of the big-name online sellers in a plain plastic bag. But if you want to buy it really, really cheap, you need to go to China -- you wouldn't believe how cheap this stuff is over there. However, judging from the news, the quarantine facilities leave something to be desired.

Truly excellent photography, Missoni, though I have the feeling they were taken before you shaved with the razor. There's a bit of scum buildup on the handle grooves, etc., on mine. But there's still plenty of shine. I probably could clean it with a toothbrush and it would look like new if I cared.

The Baili BD177/179 will not give you the world's closest shave. But, for me, it is a joy to use.
 
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If you have an early 1940s closed comb Gillette Aristocrat, perhaps you could compare the head to the Baili BD177/179. Do the blade gap and the blade extension match?

@KMS Davis I do not have a 1940's Aristocrat but the Baili does shave similar to my Gillette Super Speed (English Flare Tip Rocket c 1959) albeit, the Gillette has a narrower useable shaving angle; both are great shavers but the Flare Tip is more demanding of techique to get a close shave. My Weishi 9306, which is also based on the Gillette TTO, is a very different razor though; much more efficient than either the Baili or the Flare Tip and indeed my Red Tip but without their outstanding smoothness.

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Truly excellent photography, Missoni, though I have the feeling they were taken before you shaved with the razor.

My OCD necessitates the use of interdental brushes when cleaning my TTO's :)
 
The Baili and Weishi are good value for money, but the Fatip Testina Gentile is not much more and IMHO is the best introductory DE razor.
 
@KMS Davis I do not have a 1940's Aristocrat but the Baili does shave similar to my Gillette Super Speed (English Flare Tip Rocket c 1959) albeit, the Gillette has a narrower useable shaving angle; both are great shavers but the Flare Tip is more demanding of techique to get a close shave. My Weishi 9306, which is also based on the Gillette TTO, is a very different razor though; much more efficient than either the Baili or the Flare Tip and indeed my Red Tip but without their outstanding smoothness.

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My OCD necessitates the use of interdental brushes when cleaning my TTO's :)

I suspect every butterfly TTO of any brand is based on Gillette TTOs (they made a lot of variations). Are there any genuinely different ways to make a butterfly razor?

But just because a butterfly razor looks like a Gillette in online photos doesn't mean it is going to shave like one. There are a lot of such razors selling for premium prices that feel like they were cut from recycled soda cans.

Years ago, I ordered two Weishis, one gray like the one in this photo, the other gold finish. They were very pretty razors, and I enjoyed looking at them. But I was disappointed by the flimsy feel of the material and appalled by the nasty shave. On the gold razor, the finish came off after a few shaves. They are razors that are cheap to produce, but can be sold at premium prices online or in discount stores, IMHO.

However, there are worse, with the Pearl TTO one notch down, and then the hoards of nameless TTOs bringing up the rear.

I mention this because there are always naïve newbies who get sucked into buying such junk online, especially the ones who gripe in online reviews about the immense effort and waste of time of having to untwist the handle of a three-piece razor. I got mine cheap while in Asia, so it was no great loss. I presume they were originally manufactured because there is a huge lower class market there for dirt cheap razors and blades. With the right technique, I suppose, one might get a decent shave with them. But in some parts of Asia, dry shaving is sometimes considered good technique. I ran into one fellow who insisted that shaving with a bare DE razor blade was considered the norm where he lived, and didn't see why I kept insisting he try using a razor. He thought razors were for wimps. Go ahead and call me a wimp, but I like a good blade inside a good razor.

A lot of online reviews gripe about the rattling sound from the Baili. If you have one, take a close look at it when open. Shake it. Yes, it rattles. Put your fingers on the wings and shake it again. No rattling. The rattling sound is coming from the wings, which are loose when partially opened. There is no rattling when they are fully opened or when fully closed - everything is tight and quiet. Whether that is a reason to dismiss the razor as junk, as some shaving connoisseurs do, I must leave to others.

I have never used a Fatip Gentile, only an OC version (which I would never recommend to a beginner). The Fatip is certainly a solid razor and an exceptional value. The Gentile sounds like a good option for a newbie.

BTW, if you want to talk about vintage Gillette, IMHO the New Long Comb is the easiest to use, even by a novice.

The bottom line is I've gotten some wonderfully comfortable, close shaves with my Baili BD179. It is one of the best razors I own, regardless of price.
 
The recently produced Wilkinson Sword Classic is, i believe, a copy of a Weishi 9306-P, which is presumably a copy of an old Gillette design ?

I bought the Wilkinson Sword when it came out and its seems (to me) to be of decent engineering and construction. It shaves nicely too, fairly mild and well balanced (imo).

They can be had for around £10 in supermarkets
 
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