Where am I going wrong

shiny

shiny

Messages
517
Location
Bradford
Chaps,

So I am trying out a straight razor and having issues which I know are driver error but still would like some advice.. I have used DE's and SE's for a while now. I also have a Feather Artist Club SS which I use from time to time with no issues. Anyway, I got an old straight (JR Torrey) from fleabay. This has just come back from a reputable hone-meister here in the UK to be made shave ready.

I did not strop it as per advice so as not to show up my (likely) bad stropping and also to feel what a shave ready straight should feel like. With the shave it would not cut the hairs (I have thick, course whiskers) and after half a cheek I gave up and went back to the Feather SS. Interestingly when trying the Torrey on my arm hairs it cut about one in ten if I was lucky whereas the Feather sliced through them all.

I think I am following all the instructions such as stretching the skin and I tried a couple of angles from blade flat on the skin through to almost 45 degrees. I am now at a loss about where I go to from here. I am thinking strop the razor and try again tomorrow. What do you lot think?

I am also thinking of advertising and trying to find someone in Yorkshire-ish to spend an hour or so with me teaching me correct shaving angles, stropping etc (Obvously they would be paid) as I have spent more than a few quid on straight razor shaving already and am loathe to give up now.
 
That seems mighty strange that it won't cut arm hair if it's come from a reputable honer. Normally I would have said that the angle must be wrong but as you are used to a Feather then the angles should be pretty similar.

Even a very good straight won't feel as sharp as a Feather blade so try cutting arm hair again (at skin level) and try adjusting the angle. If it really is that bad then you need to contact whoever honed it.
 
Without being over critical of the service you received there is only so much a honemeister will do so you need to learn how to strop it irrespective of whether it's supposed to be shave ready or not. Tracking down an expert to show you the ropes should save you a lot of trial and error.
 
45 degrees is not an acute enough a angle for a start, the more acute the better don't forget you are trying to cut the hair off not scrape it off, this angle will maybe work OK with a Feather razor loaded with a Feather blade but not with a straight razor, I would say around 70 degrees to be an ideal cutting angle for a straight razor, it's common fault with all newbie straight razor users you somehow think the less angle the less chance of cutting yourself not true, in fact the other way round.


 
Did you send it to me? I recall two people send me quite a number of razors recently, one lot of which was a real load of Ebay rubbish.... no bevels, rust, warps, pit holes in the bevel, etc, etc - I really should stop accepting them as they take so long to get anywhere with.

However, I think I made notes about most of them on the advice note I sent back with the razors. I know that I have honed one Torry, but I can't really recall anything about it.

Each and every razor I hone IS tested before being returned - if it doesn't perform I let you know. That doesn't stop razors with poor metal or that have been abused so that they have lost their temper (the usual sign of over-eager Ebay tarting up buffing) losing their edges after being honed. I cannot be responsible for poor steel.

If you did send it to me originally (can't think why you didn't contact me directly if this was the case, though) then I will do what I would do for anyone else - re-hone it at my expense. In the rare event that I damaged the edge while packing it, that will be cured and I will be ultra careful to ensure that this does not happen again, trust me. When you get it back if it still doesn't shave then either its you or the razor is shot. At which point a gent would choose to pay for the extra service or bin the razor, or both.

Regards,
Neil
 
Neil, I didn't contact you directly or mention you on here as i believe there is nothing wrong with the honing service which you provided. I will try the different angles mentioned on the thread already. I will see from there where i go. Being a beginner i am sure it is the clown holding the blade rather than the blade itself. I will report back in the morning.
 
No problem. The offer still holds to send it back though.

Do remember that the correct shaving angle is 30 degrees or less. It is common for people to unconsciously hold the blade at a 45 degree (or more) angle - this only leads to scraping, pulling and tugging. To start, work out what a 30 degree angle looks like - a protractor will help. If you cant visualise it, you know that a right angle is 90 degrees and half that is 45 degrees, so somewhere around half the 45 degree angle is what you are aiming at. Having established that, put the blade flat on your lathered face and elevate it to around that angle and proceed, you can lower or elevate it a little as you go to see if there is a difference, but try not to exceed 30 degrees if you can possibly help it.

Stick with the cheeks until you are confident.

Regards
Neil

pugh-the-special-one said:
.... I would say around 70 degrees to be an ideal cutting angle for a straight razor, it's common fault with all newbie straight razor users you somehow think the less angle the less chance of cutting yourself not true, in fact the other way round.


Click to expand...

Are you sure you haven't got this the wrong way round Jamie? 70 degrees is more than twice the angle most usually recommended, ie 30 degrees. Personally, I use a little less than 30 degrees, somewhere more like 20 - 25 degrees. 70 degrees is more like a right angle, I'm sure I would slice into the flesh or scrape the top layer of skin off using an extreme elevation like that.

Still, different strokes for different folks as they say...

Regards,
Neil
 
Neil Miller said:
No problem. The offer still holds to send it back though.

Do remember that the correct shaving angle is 30 degrees or less. It is common for people to unconsciously hold the blade at a 45 degree (or more) angle - this only leads to scraping, pulling and tugging. To start, work out what a 30 degree angle looks like - a protractor will help. If you cant visualise it, you know that a right angle is 90 degrees and half that is 45 degrees, so somewhere around half the 45 degree angle is what you are aiming at. Having established that, put the blade flat on your lathered face and elevate it to around that angle and proceed, you can lower or elevate it a little as you go to see if there is a difference, but try not to exceed 30 degrees if you can possibly help it.

Stick with the cheeks until you are confident.

Regards
Neil

pugh-the-special-one said:
.... I would say around 70 degrees to be an ideal cutting angle for a straight razor, it's common fault with all newbie straight razor users you somehow think the less angle the less chance of cutting yourself not true, in fact the other way round.


Click to expand...

Are you sure you haven't got this the wrong way round Jamie? 70 degrees is more than twice the angle most usually recommended, ie 30 degrees. Personally, I use a little less than 30 degrees, somewhere more like 20 - 25 degrees. 70 degrees is more like a right angle, I'm sure I would slice into the flesh or scrape the top layer of skin off using an extreme elevation like that.

Still, different strokes for different folks as they say...

Regards,
Neil
Click to expand...



Thanks for pointing that one out, that's what I mean Neil 30 degrees just had it the wrong way round in my head, I've cut thousands of mitre joints through the years silly me, but as you say you can go to a 20 degree angle in reality the more acute the better the blade will cut.

 
As I suspected, it was me being a clown. I have just tried my arm hair again and this time I laid the blade flat and lifted it so the spine just left the skin and who would have thunked it, it cut the hairs. I've just got to replicate it on my face.

I suppose I can get away with a bigger angle with my Feather.

As usual I bow down with thanks to all the chaps on this board and especially Neil for his super speedy service and after sales support.

Now I just have to strop the thing for my test drive tomorrow.
 
pugh-the-special-one said:
Neil Miller said:
No problem. The offer still holds to send it back though.

Do remember that the correct shaving angle is 30 degrees or less. It is common for people to unconsciously hold the blade at a 45 degree (or more) angle - this only leads to scraping, pulling and tugging. To start, work out what a 30 degree angle looks like - a protractor will help. If you cant visualise it, you know that a right angle is 90 degrees and half that is 45 degrees, so somewhere around half the 45 degree angle is what you are aiming at. Having established that, put the blade flat on your lathered face and elevate it to around that angle and proceed, you can lower or elevate it a little as you go to see if there is a difference, but try not to exceed 30 degrees if you can possibly help it.

Stick with the cheeks until you are confident.

Regards
Neil

pugh-the-special-one said:
.... I would say around 70 degrees to be an ideal cutting angle for a straight razor, it's common fault with all newbie straight razor users you somehow think the less angle the less chance of cutting yourself not true, in fact the other way round.


Click to expand...

Are you sure you haven't got this the wrong way round Jamie? 70 degrees is more than twice the angle most usually recommended, ie 30 degrees. Personally, I use a little less than 30 degrees, somewhere more like 20 - 25 degrees. 70 degrees is more like a right angle, I'm sure I would slice into the flesh or scrape the top layer of skin off using an extreme elevation like that.

Still, different strokes for different folks as they say...

Regards,
Neil
Click to expand...



Thanks for pointing that one out, that's what I mean Neil 30 degrees just had it the wrong way round in my head, I've cut thousands of mitre joints through the years silly me, but as you say you can go to a 20 degree angle in reality the more acute the better the blade will cut.


Click to expand...



I'm confused ! I've read somewhere that that you should lay the blade flat on your skin then lift the spine so the gap tween spine and skin is about equal to the thickness of the spine..lets say 4 or 5 mm's, which would indicate that your 30 degree dimension should read more like 60 degrees, I'm probably wrong but I believe that's what Neil is trying to get across.

Terry
 
razorquest said:
its lay razor flat on face then lift twice the spine width
Click to expand...

What I said is a 30 degree angle is as bigh as you should go, ie anything higher than 30 degrees is ot recommended.

I also said that under 30 degrees is fine and that I generally use 20 to 25 degrees. I do use shallower angles, especially against the grain under the chin, when the blade is almost, but not quite, flat.

If you are having trouble visualising a 30 degree angle then just take a piece of paper and make two folds in a corner so that you have reduced the corner to three equal divisions. The original corner will be 90 degrees, so making it three equal areas means each part is 30 degrees. The spine of your blade wants to be no higher than one of these 30 degree segments.

Taking it a step further, fold one of these 30 degree segments into 3 equal areas. Two of them will give you a 20 degree angle.

Regards,
Neil
 
Everything in the garden is rosy. I had a no-where near perfect shave this morning and had to finish off with my fatboy. But...... I did get a DFS on my cheeks and neck with two passes.

Thanks again all for your advice.
 
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