honing help?

S

shanky887614

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1,232
i was thinking about getting a hone to maintain my razor but everywhere i look there is conflicting advice, get synthetic,coticles, Japanese naturals

what would you guys recommend just to touchup a razor that has been honed well by somebody else?


will i be looking at a 10k or?
 
If you're just looking for a single stone, I would recommend a coticule from either Neil Miller, or from Spartacus at The Invisible Edge, both are trusted members here, and both sell excellent products.
 
Professor Blighty said:
If you're just looking for a single stone, I would recommend a coticule from either Neil Miller, or from Spartacus at The Invisible Edge, both are trusted members here, and both sell excellent products.
Click to expand...

i was thinking about getting the one from invisible edge.


if i were to start buying them off ebay, what stones would i need?

say 1k, and 4k/8k combination as well?
 
shanky887614 said:
Professor Blighty said:
If you're just looking for a single stone, I would recommend a coticule from either Neil Miller, or from Spartacus at The Invisible Edge, both are trusted members here, and both sell excellent products.
Click to expand...

i was thinking about getting the one from invisible edge.


if i were to start buying them off ebay, what stones would i need?

say 1k, and 4k/8k combination as well?
Click to expand...

In that case, look for King combination stones, 1/6 k 10/12 k that sort of thing. But I still say talk to either Neil or Steve first.

Martin
 
I like the Naniwa SS hones, good value for money.

Go for the 8k to start with that will be a good start to refresh dull edges and fit in well with future progressions.

I go 1k 3k (I slip a BBW in at this stage with varying slurries) 8k and finnish on the Coticule.

Naniwa SS are available from the invisible edge or do a world search on ebay.
 
I would recommend the 1200 X 8000 King stone with the small Nagura slurry stone, I will give you a link so you can take a look I have used this store in the past, they are on Ebay but you can contact them direct if you wish
.
http://www.worldofsurvival.com/product-info.cfm/Sharpening/Japanese-Waterstones/Combination-Stones/Japanese-Waterstone-1200-8000-Grit-+-Nagura-Stone/id/179.html

Jamie
 
There is conflicting advise because there is more than one way to skin a cat! If you are only maintaining and not looking at restoring razors you only really need look for something which is used as a finishing hone. To list what is easily available, rather than vintage stuff that may crop up on ebay:-

A Chinese 12K hone will do this, it is cheap but very slow. They are a natural stone so the grit rating is an estimation of the equivilent synthetic stone and most likely bullshit.
A Naniwa 12K Superstone, these are about 3 times the price and have an excellent reputation.
A Coticule a natural stone which which can be used with slurry or water and covers a broad range of synthetic stone grit ratings according to the thickness thinness of slurry, IMO a coticule can replace from 4000 grit to 10,000 grit although some stones are better than others.

The choice is yours.
 
Jeltz said:
There is conflicting advise because there is more than one way to skin a cat! If you are only maintaining and not looking at restoring razors you only really need look for something which is used as a finishing hone. To list what is easily available, rather than vintage stuff that may crop up on ebay:-

A Chinese 12K hone will do this, it is cheap but very slow. They are a natural stone so the grit rating is an estimation of the equivilent synthetic stone and most likely bullshit.
A Naniwa 12K Superstone, these are about 3 times the price and have an excellent reputation.
A Coticule a natural stone which which can be used with slurry covers or water and covers a broad range of synthetic stone grit ratings according to the thickness thinness of slurry, IMO a coticule can replace from 4000 grit to 10,000 grit although some stones are better than others.

The choice is yours.
Click to expand...

thats what i was wondering about, i was reading up on the coticules and the dilucot method or rather the best way to use a coticule to hone

coticules seem cheaper if ussed with a slurry stone that other stone combinations, this is why i was looking into them
 
Cotis that you are looking at are considerable smaller than the synthetics you are looking(a 8x3 coti will be at least 200 quid) They will really replace the 4/8 grit range. So something lower like a 1k is still needed to set the bevel. They apparently work very well as a finish stone so you might not have to use something higher grit like a 10 or 12k stone but as they are all natural and vary stone to stone.
Don't forget you will have to get something to flatten(lap) the stone with as I know they do not come guaranteed flat from the invisible edge as he does not lap them for you.
I would go for the norton or nawmia as that's what I have and use. Thought will get around to trying my coti some day. If you are looking at the nawmia I put up are store link a while ago in the straight section that's sells them at much better value than places said earlier they also stock the combo versions as well.
Or if you have some money to burn go for the chosera series
 
I have a coticule, but whilst it does come in very handy from time to time, it isn't my best friend. Various other stones give a better edge for my purposes, but there are plenty of people who really like them. I'd go for a high grit Naniwa or similar for touchup honing, on grounds of price and consistency.

For bevel setting and grinding out damage a continuous surface diamond plate is invaluable and it'll also do a good job of flattening other stones. A workable progression for "ebay razors" would be 600 diamond; then 2k, 5-6k and 10k Japanese synthetics. Though in my case I use a variety of natural stones for finishing.
 
the opening post mentioned conflicting advice - you have that as well through this thread.
Truth is there is not one single answer - each to his/her own
Personally I always use a coticule for several reasons, one being you only need one stone if you are not restoring
Invisible edge, ardennes coticule, the superior shave, neil miller are all worth checking out
As with all stones they are good in the right hands - you have to learn to use them.
I would urge you to get a stone and stick to it
 
Jeltz said:
There is conflicting advise because there is more than one way to skin a cat! If you are only maintaining and not looking at restoring razors you only really need look for something which is used as a finishing hone. To list what is easily available, rather than vintage stuff that may crop up on ebay:-

A Chinese 12K hone will do this, it is cheap but very slow. They are a natural stone so the grit rating is an estimation of the equivilent synthetic stone and most likely bullshit.
A Naniwa 12K Superstone, these are about 3 times the price and have an excellent reputation.
A Coticule a natural stone which which can be used with slurry or water and covers a broad range of synthetic stone grit ratings according to the thickness thinness of slurry, IMO a coticule can replace from 4000 grit to 10,000 grit although some stones are better than others.

The choice is yours.
Click to expand...

This is the best post so far.

From the OP, I gather you want a finishing stone only.

If that is the case, you shouldn't even be looking at anything under 8,000 grit.

A coticule is rated among the forums as between 8-12k. Different people, different opinions, I'm sure someone rates theirs at 16k or more. Either case, you can't really compare a natural stone to a synthetic anyway, they are natural and unique, not uniform and identical.

Personally, I'd stay away from the Chinese 12k, it cuts so slow you'll get bored or frustrated. I really love the Naniwa 12k. I don't think you are going to find a better stone for the money. However, its pretty darn close to $100.

Don't buy a coticule. The results are not worth the premium. People are paying so much because they are a natural stone and come with the mystique and uniqueness of a natural stone. They don't produce a finer edge or anything. They produce a "different" edge, but you are unlikely to notice.

For an 8"x3" coticule, you are going to be looking at several hundred dollars. No joke.

Okay, now for the even better option.

Just buy some diamond spray or chromium oxide. Infinitely cheaper and you probably won't be able to tell the difference. Plus, you already know how to strop. Some people report that they are able to sharpen their razors for years upon years (possibly forever) using pastes/sprays. Not sure if its true, I don't have the patience to do such an endurance test.
 
asharperrazor said:
Jeltz said:
There is conflicting advise because there is more than one way to skin a cat! If you are only maintaining and not looking at restoring razors you only really need look for something which is used as a finishing hone. To list what is easily available, rather than vintage stuff that may crop up on ebay:-

A Chinese 12K hone will do this, it is cheap but very slow. They are a natural stone so the grit rating is an estimation of the equivilent synthetic stone and most likely bullshit.
A Naniwa 12K Superstone, these are about 3 times the price and have an excellent reputation.
A Coticule a natural stone which which can be used with slurry or water and covers a broad range of synthetic stone grit ratings according to the thickness thinness of slurry, IMO a coticule can replace from 4000 grit to 10,000 grit although some stones are better than others.

The choice is yours.
Click to expand...

This is the best post so far.

From the OP, I gather you want a finishing stone only.

If that is the case, you shouldn't even be looking at anything under 8,000 grit.

A coticule is rated among the forums as between 8-12k. Different people, different opinions, I'm sure someone rates theirs at 16k or more. Either case, you can't really compare a natural stone to a synthetic anyway, they are natural and unique, not uniform and identical.

Personally, I'd stay away from the Chinese 12k, it cuts so slow you'll get bored or frustrated. I really love the Naniwa 12k. I don't think you are going to find a better stone for the money. However, its pretty darn close to $100.

Don't buy a coticule. The results are not worth the premium. People are paying so much because they are a natural stone and come with the mystique and uniqueness of a natural stone. They don't produce a finer edge or anything. They produce a "different" edge, but you are unlikely to notice.

For an 8"x3" coticule, you are going to be looking at several hundred dollars. No joke.

Okay, now for the even better option.

Just buy some diamond spray or chromium oxide. Infinitely cheaper and you probably won't be able to tell the difference. Plus, you already know how to strop. Some people report that they are able to sharpen their razors for years upon years (possibly forever) using pastes/sprays. Not sure if its true, I don't have the patience to do such an endurance test.
Click to expand...

personally when i first started shaving i thought you could sharpen it with the stone that came with the kit (a rubish canadien sharpening stone)

thats 25mm by 100mm , somehow managed to make it shave not too bad but it wasnt very comfortable


id be perfectly happy with a 150mm by 50mm/40mm ive seen on the internet for £52
 
Don't get me wrong. Size isn't everything. A spyderco UF stone is $50 USD at amazon. It is 8x2.

I'm just saying that a coticule is very expensive for what you get. You should go in knowing exactly what you are buying and why you are paying a premium for one.

Now that said, yeah, I'd buy more. But I have HAD and it is incurable. So, if you really want a coticule, buy a coticule. But if your looking for value, look elsewhere.
 
for an extra tenner you will get a nice sized bout its what i have and use for all my honing needs from setting the bevel to the very end of finishing and if you fancy setting the bevel faster a good 1k will solve that for you and if you dont find the edge sharp enough for you a good few strop on some crox or news paper yes i said it news paper really brings the edge to life the more print the better lol
 
asharperrazor said:
So, if you really want a coticule, buy a coticule. But if your looking for value, look elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Spot on. I do think it's handy to have a coti around as there are some steels which respond well to them, but if you're looking for an excellent finishing coticule it'll probably be an old hard one. Mine is a last resort stone, and for the average razor, I can improve the edge by using the BBW backing side. Garnets in a soft matrix = unpredictable honing characteristics, and a very steep learning curve if you want better than mediocre results. I'd far prefer a hard novaculite for all their faults because at least you know where you are with them.

Hmm, wonder if they'll accept my membership application at Artisanshaving.com now ;)

Shanky, do you have a strong interest in pre 1850 razors? If not, save some money and go for a Japanese synthetic for your first stone. I didn't, but I've been playing the sharpening game for a long, long time. If you do like veteran (as opposed to vintage :D razors), you really will have to talk to Neil eventually if you wish to avoid import taxes, or else sub out the honing.
 
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