4 sided paddle strop(with diamond pastes) vs 12k Naniwa super stone

[jodypress]

Hi all,

Have a bit of a quandary for general upkeep of my razors in rotation.

I recently purchased Steve's 4 sided paddle strop with the diamond pastes regime listed here (and very happy with it too):

http://www.theinvisibleedge.co.uk/invisibleedgeproducts.html#foursidedstrop

I wanted to know if this regime of 3, 1 and 0.25 micron every few weeks on the weekday razor (using the 6 micron perhaps once every couple of months) would be enough to keep the edge keen and see me through getting them honed perhaps once a year.

Would it be worth giving the 12k Naniwa super stone a whirl or am I opening myself up to the slippery slop of honing
Would the 12k be much different to 6 micron on the paddle strop?
Could you use both the 12k and then the pasted paddle strop?

The reason I ask is I'm comfortable stropping (have one of Steve's 3" Latigo strops) and seems to work, but with honing it's a whole other ball game, one that I will be happy to learn one day.

Thanks,

Jody

 

[UKRob]

Hi Jody. I have limited experience of using diamond pasted strops but I would tend just to stay with that for the time being and see how it goes - it will probably keep you shave ready for a decent time.

The next question about the comparative merits of a 12K against the 6 micron I can't answer but the 12k stone is recognised as a polisher rather than an out and out sharpener. I guess one thing to investigate is what hone was used prior to your new paddle - if you are getting a comfortable shave that will give you a good idea as to where you need to go back to if the paddle stops being effective.

For a definitive answer you will need Neil to pick the thread up.

 

[Neil Miller]

Thanks Rob,

Just a general note on micron size and grit equivalents. Depending on which conversion chart you use, you will get several answers, so its best to stay to a known quantity and use that as a working basis. Shapton Glass Stones will do - they have the micron equivalent on the back:

Shapton GS 30k - 0.49 microns - same as good chrome oxide (0.5 microns), probably the most used abrasive in razor honing.
Shapton GS 16k - 0.92 micron
Shapton GS 8k - 1.84 micron
Shapton GS 4k - 3.68 micron
Shapton GS 2k - 7.35 micron
Shapton GS 1k - 14.7 micron

So the answer is a definite yes (I have used both the stone and the equivalent diamond compound): the Shapton 12k would be much finer than 6 micron diamond spray or compound, not only in terms in terms of particle size, but also in terms of perceived 'smoothness' - the shapton will leave a smooth comfortable edge for most while almost any diamond variation of equivalent particle size will leave a coarser, abrasive edge for most, to the point of producing 'weepers' on some people. That only applies for some people, not for others, of course.

By interpolation, a Naniwa 12k should be equivalent to around 1.2 microns.

Most people would only use chrome oxide (0.5 micron) when the edge begins to tug a bit - not whether the edge needs it or not.

Using chrome oxide after a 12k (naniwa super series), 13k (sigma), 15k (shapton pro series) or 1k (shapton glass stone) makes sense and many people do it - after all, it is equivalent to finishing on a 30,000 grit stone.

0.25 and 0.1 micron diamond compounds tend to be 'love it or hate it' compounds - both sharpen aggressively and can leave an uncomfortably sharp, stark edge. Many people who use 0.5 micron diamond compound use chrome oxide after it as its gentler action and less aggressive cutting renders the edge smooth - I have even read about people who use chrome oxide after 0.25 micron grit, even though the chrome oxide is coarser.

Only you can decide what suits your face best, though. Just be careful when using the compounds - all of them, even the fine ones, are aggressive cutters and it is easy to ruin the edge in just a couple of strokes. I know - I have seen the evidence of it. I've had razors in that have been stropped on what the owner thought was a straight paddle, only to find that it was slightly 'humped' in the middle - with a corresponding frown in the edge of the razor.

As an aside, the "...slippery slop of honing..." I like that! Coming from full bevel set to final polishing on a good number of razors each day, I appreciate just how much 'slop' accumulates!

Regards,
Neil

PS: If you shave regularly and your stubble is coarse, maybe once a week or once every two weeks is good for touch-ups. Using 3, 1 and 0.25 every few weeks seems totally unwarranted, in my opinion.

 

[ajc347]

Thanks for such a really informative post Neil.

I've spent much of today honing a couple of razors and have been trying out some new stones and diamond pastes for the first time.

I managed to get a decent relatively edge on one of them but not on a couple on a couple of others.

I think this was because I went from a finishing stone (after starting from a 1k Naniwa and then going to a 4/8k Norton) to 3 micron diamond paste followed by 1 micron and then some chrome oxide on those that didn't work to well whilst on the one that did I finished on a Thuringian (Celebrated Water Hone) and the went straight to the chrome oxide.

I think I undid the work I had done on the stones by going to the diamond pastes before the chrome oxide. That would explain why the edge felt somewhat rougher on the two razors that didn't work out so well.

 

[asharperrazor]

It's a slippery slope is all I'll say. You don't just buy one....

 

[jodypress]

Thanks for all the informative replies guys, much appreciated. From a learning perspective, stropping is a lot less daunting to learn than honing (perhaps something to do with spine away from you as opposed to edge away from you with honing).

Anyhow, I tested out a razor that I've been using on weekdays that I bought in April that was shave ready, it's been needing a touch up for a while and maintenance (exc honing) was something I wanted to do myself if possible. I'm comfortable with the process of stropping and ran the razor through the whole 6,3,1,0.25 regime and took her out for a spin last night and it felt totally refreshed again. Didn't feel harsh at all.

The reason I've asked this question is I recently had my chipped Filly repaired by Jamie and it had a lovely edge to it and was curious if it was worth investing in the 12k Naniwa super stone in addition to the pasted 4 sided strop.

To me it seems not, it's more as a finishing hone after a honing progression regime. I thought it might be useful in bringing back a dulled edge which perhaps the 6 micron paste might not do.