Wade & Butcher - returning!

MichaelC said:
It seems clear to me that there are folks open-minded (and rational of thought) enough to allow this company to live and breath and who have hopeful expectations (slightly tentative as they may understandably be) that we can produce equal - or more accurately, let's be honest - far superior quality blades than were ever produced historically by W&B.
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I think you might have been able to phrase that a bit better as you managed to be offensive in two ways in one sentence;
a) by your logic if one does not share your vision and approach one is close-minded and not 'rational of thought', and
b) you admit to viewing W&B razors to be inferior to the razors that you, even though you are not a razor maker yourself, will be producing. Makes one wonder why you acquired the rights to make such poor quality blades. Could it be for the name?

Quite a bit off putting in both regards and I'll refrain from commenting on this going forward.
 
Darkbulb said:
I think you might have been able to phrase that a bit better as you managed to be offensive in two ways in one sentence;
a) by your logic if one does not share your vision and approach one is close-minded and not 'rational of thought', and
b) you admit to viewing W&B razors to be inferior to the razors that you, even though you are not a razor maker yourself, will be producing. Makes one wonder why you acquired the rights to make such poor quality blades. Could it be for the name?

Quite a bit off putting in both regards and I'll refrain from commenting on this going forward.
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Whoa! You know what? You're absolutely correct. Gents my sincere apologies, hectic, reading that back it sounds shockingly out of place. I could indeed have phrased that much better, so again Wow!, my apologies - not the correct choice of words at all...

Thank you Darkbulb for pointing this out. No, my simple meaning was that there seems to be a camp 'For' and a camp 'Against' and every opinion is good and right. That's all I meant. The rest was poor word choice from being a tad over-zealous in explaining this venture.

But as I said in a previous post, no I don't view historical W&B razors as 'inferior' outright - but rather, today, with improved processes and materials, and operating at a smaller details-focused scale, we can produce better razors. If I didn't believe that statement, then truly I would have no way forward in reviving this brand...

Thanks again for pointing out my epic miscommunication there - really much appreciated.

- Mike.
 
Gentlemen, I thank you all for your time and for allowing me to discuss the intricacies of this venture, but I fear my own responses are growing long in the tooth - certainly they feel tedious when even I read them back...

I'm sure the broader wet-shaving community does not want to hear me continuously repeat myself and state my case again and again.. I think the culprit here is that discussions of this nature are greatly premature, and my words will carry more value when coupled with the launch of the new W&B razors.

If I can then kindly, bow out of the talks for now and allow you all to discuss amongst yourselves, that may be best until further down the road.

Sincerely,
Mike
 
Darkbulb said:
I think you might have been able to phrase that a bit better as you managed to be offensive in two ways in one sentence;
a) by your logic if one does not share your vision and approach one is close-minded and not 'rational of thought', and
b) you admit to viewing W&B razors to be inferior to the razors that you, even though you are not a razor maker yourself, will be producing. Makes one wonder why you acquired the rights to make such poor quality blades. Could it be for the name?

Quite a bit off putting in both regards and I'll refrain from commenting on this going forward.
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Precisely DB

Mike thank you for your apology. To be honest quality products carry confidence not only with the user but also with the supplier. Neither has been expressed in this thread. Bowing out from as you mention 'discussions' further proves this point. Not for an argument but for clarification I would have persisted. Anyhow not how I would have hoped the first introduction to a well established company to have been conducted.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
 
Nishy said:
Precisely DB

Mike thank you for your apology. To be honest quality products carry confidence not only with the user but also with the supplier. Neither has been expressed in this thread. Bowing out from as you mention 'discussions' further proves this point. Not for an argument but for clarification I would have persisted. Anyhow not how I would have hoped the first introduction to a well established company to have been conducted.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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Hi Nishy, I'm so sorry but I'm again not entirely sure what you mean?

I'm simply asking the community here if I can kindly get back to the business of reviving this brand, vs. me continually stating the same things, as I'm sure it is growing tiresome for many reading this thread...?

I think if you read all my posts I've clarified my position quite thoroughly, and divulged as much information as can be reasonably divulged at this very early point - are you suggesting truly that I've not done so?

I've been upfront and entirely honest with where things are at, in an attempt to engage the community in a neutral and supportive manner, but I fear that there are very strong feelings (of course there are) on this topic, where I cannot satisfy the interest without product in hand, and so currently I think I may serve the community better by simply 'getting back to work' instead of sounding like a broken record on this forum, (and unintentionally insulting folks) in the process...

So thanks again guys, and please chat amongst yourselves, you'll hear from me in due course.

Sincerely,
- Mike
 
MichaelC said:
Hi Nishy, I'm so sorry but I'm again not entirely sure what you mean?

I'm simply asking the community here if I can kindly get back to the business of reviving this brand, vs. me continually stating the same things, as I'm sure it is growing tiresome for many reading this thread...?

I think if you read all my posts I've clarified my position quite thoroughly, and divulged as much information as can be reasonably divulged at this very early point - are you suggesting truly that I've not done so?

I've been upfront and entirely honest with where things are at, in an attempt to engage the community in a neutral and supportive manner, but I fear that there are very strong feelings (of course there are) on this topic, where I cannot satisfy the interest without product in hand, and so currently I think I may serve the community better by simply 'getting back to work' instead of sounding like a broken record on this forum, (and unintentionally insulting folks) in the process...

So thanks again guys, and please chat amongst yourselves, you'll hear from me in due course.

Sincerely,
- Mike
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Mike to be honest I'm lacking clarity. Again I do apologise if I am mistaken or haven't read the relevant posts. However, I don't believe I received an answer as to if any reviews exist or similar. Price wise I have a rough idea but again not specific or narrowed down.

I appreciate it is very early stages. But speaking from experience (other than razors) startups with a clear goal provide clear succinct answers.

Add to this removing yourself from the discussion has left me bewildered.


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To be honest I haven't read the entire thread, but when I saw that 'Wade & Butcher returning' I did get quite excited and after reading some of it, looks like new Wade & Butcher will be a top-end quality, custom made razors with the Celebrated Wade & Butcher stamp on them.
One of the most sought after W&B razor is the big 8/8 For Barbers Use razor either Full Hollow grind or Wedge. Will there be an exact 1:1 copy/replica/newer version or what ever you want to call, going to be made??
 
MichaelC said:
And are you honestly equating a small modern workshop in South Africa run by an individual of English and German ancestry with a mass-production facility in Thailand/China?
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Little Commonwealth sentiment left in the world, perhaps.

(I was trying to find an example of one of those old "Buy Commonwealth" posters, but was unsuccessful.)
 
MichaelC said:
...Also, please if anyone can kindly point me towards some of this world-leading Sheffield tool steel that can be used for our new W&B razors, that would be swell. I mean it sincerely - apart form Old-World references to the quality of Sheffield steel from the very distant past, I just cannot find current references to Sheffield tool steels that consider them exceptional above all others... Or are you simply referring to ordinary standardised tool steels, produced in Sheffield, that are covered by that same 'nationalistic magic' we mentioned earlier? :)

But hey, guys, really to each their own, and indeed it's strong opinions that make things interesting :)

Thanks folks, a lively debate indeed.
- Mike
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I was having a chat with my machinist the other day about your venture, and he mentioned that the company he buys most of his steel from has a small stockpile of Sheffield tool steel from the early 1900's. All I know is that the company is located in America. I can try to find out more information if you would like.
MichaelC said:
LOL, no for sure.. the steel choice is set (Swedish manufactured steels, Carbon and PM SS).
The question in that post was somewhat rhetorically asked.
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Well, in that case, forget I said anything.
 
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pugh-the-special-one said:
http://toolsteels.co.uk/ground-flat-steel-stock-sheffield.php
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The vintage stuff will be softer than the modern steel, for what that's worth. Tempering will change the final result to some degree though.

Also, in the 1800's and early 1900's virtually all the steel being made in Sheffield came from Swedish ores. I have no idea what the source of current Sheffield steel is.
@pugh-the-special-one : from the website, "We can quote for, advise on and source nearly every current grade of tool steel using our Europe-wide supplier network."

So calling that "Sheffield steel" would be misleading at best.
 
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PLANofMAN said:
The vintage stuff will be softer than the modern steel, for what that's worth. Tempering will change the final result to some degree though.

Also, in the 1800's and early 1900's virtually all the steel being made in Sheffield came from Swedish ores. I have no idea what the source of current Sheffield steel is.
@pugh-the-special-one : from the website, "We can quote for, advise on and source nearly every current grade of tool steel using our Europe-wide supplier network."

So calling that "Sheffield steel" would be misleading at best.
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I wouldn't get to hung up on where the steel comes from, as I have owned Japanese razors made from Sheffield steel, German razors made from Sheffield steel, Japanese razors made from Swedish and Austrian steel In fact my home town of Merthyr Tydfil was once the Iron producing capital of the world and most of the American rail tracks were produce here.

http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofWales/Merthyr-the-Welsh-Men-of-Steel/

 
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