Wade & Butcher - returning!

I was educated in Newcastle-Upon-Tyne, at the local Uni. Graduated in '95 as a Naval Architect. Back then, Swan Hunters shipyard were still making some Navy vessels.

Twenty-one years down the line, British shipbuilding is a mere shadow of what they and all other national yards used to be in the middle of the last century.

Would I love to see a large, modern commercial ship being designed and constructed in Wales, England or Scotland nowadays? Absolutely yes. Is it practically and for the short coming time-frame this realistically possible? No.

Would I mind if tomorrow British Shipbuilders attempted the start of a revival with a first venture in (say) India? No. It could well be that in 20-30 years from now the cream of shipbuilding is back to the industrial European (or British, if you prefer) north.

Nobody can dispute the quality of craftsmanship and works produced on anything relating to steel that used to come out of Sheffield. But the industry changed. The sons and grandsons of those tremendously skilled British honemeisters who were at W&B are now perhaps working in finance or I.T.

Now an entrepreneur comes and says "Hold on, let's take a look on how we can revive the brand with full respect toward its history, and do that as good as we can. Perhaps manufacturing in the RSA is the first step. Who knows what the next step would be..."

This is how I look at it. Mike is straight and open about the venture, and at the end of the day time will tell if the whole idea was successfully viable from a number of different perspectives.
 
It can become a bit of a silly thought experiment.. Ultimately yes, it's a steel blank formed into a razor with the W&B marking on it. The difference, as with all products in all industries, is who has the right to apply those marks. What else then can dictate authenticity? Or rather in this scenario, I ask you: How else could W&B begin operating again that would make any razor produced by a 'Maker A' authentic in your eyes?

When it comes to physical products I believe I already mentioned some examples in my reply above.
I would assume that all patents filed by W&B are by now expired as well.
So to answer in a slightly iterative way - I don't believe an old brand like this, based so heavily in location/origin and physical products - after this many years - can be brought back in an authentic way.

Any attempts to do so and to base the merits on predominantly philosophical similarities and alignment is, to me, just a way to rationalize a product that is not - and can not - be what it was.

This is how I look at it. Mike is straight and open about the venture, and at the end of the day time will tell if the whole idea was successfully viable from a number of different perspectives.

As a multi-time entrepreneur myself I will agree and my comments are obviously very subjective on how I feel about brand and what 'makes' a brand. Ask twenty people and you will probably get twenty answers.
It absolutely took guts by Mike to come into a thread that was already rather heavily against this venture.
Props to him for that.
 
When it comes to physical products like these I would personally expect there to be a much stronger tie to the old company if the name is to be 'brought back'. That could be anything from location, tools, former workers, material, manufacturing process.

Darkbulb, to further respond to this part of your post, as indeed it is an interesting debate, I would ask:

What if W&B never sold the company and it continued to this day... however, through time they; changed staff throughout all departments (new individuals hired), They changed location, opened a smaller workshop in commonwealth RSA, updated their manufacturing processes and employed the use of new tools and machinery, introduced new (better) materials despite their different place of origin,

and finally, and as a result of those changes, they produced razors of equal or exceedingly better quality than the company ever did in it's past.

Would you purchase a razor from that Wade & Butcher with pride? Dare I say I think you would :)

- Mike
 
Darkbulb, to further respond to this part of your post, as indeed it is an interesting debate, I would ask:

What if W&B never sold the company and it continued to this day... however, through time they; changed staff throughout all departments (new individuals hired), They changed location, opened a smaller workshop in commonwealth RSA, updated their manufacturing processes and employed the use of new tools and machinery, introduced new (better) materials despite their different place of origin,

and finally, and as a result of those changes, they produced razors of equal or exceedingly better quality than the company ever did in it's past.

Would you purchase a razor from that Wade & Butcher with pride? Dare I say I think you would :)

- Mike

It's a good question and there is some merit to it.

I could make it easy for myself and say that the difference is that a continuous production ensures that there is a consistency in processes, quality control, training, experience and sourcing that you can't possibly get if one many years later 'revives' the company w/out any connection to the company apart from brand and company ownership.
Often tooling is re-used and/or re-ordered to the same specs, etc.
Before the razor was placed in a box and shipped it had to adhere to X standards and QC points. What they were I have no idea but that was all part of what a consistent manufacturing operation kept alive - regardless of where the actual machine was located.

Now, that would be the easy answer - and in part I believe there's some truth to it - but there is also a big element of perception that comes into play. I perceive this 're-launch' to not meet so many of these data points that to me would mean that it's "still a W&B razor" that I simply can't see it as one.

As far as I can tell, there is no viable way to bring back what *I* would consider to be a genuine, true-to-the-brand product. Too much time has simply passed. To bring it back under a philosophical sail is, to me, not bringing it back - it's branding a different set of razors with a company long gone.

Having said all that I do of course realize that it's all subjective, as called out earlier, and that I in no way mean to imply that the way I view this is the 'right way'. I admire your passion for the wet shaving 'culture' and history.
 
I didn't See anybody Directly Voicing against the Venture..Its Clear to Me that Mike has been Clever enough to Attain the Rights to Use the Wade & Butcher Company Name for Marketing Purposes..I Hope it works Out Well..There will be Folks Out there that will Probably be Glad to Purchase a Currently Branded Wade & Butcher SR and of Course that's the Whole Point of Clever Marketing..;)

It has been Done before with many Products like Triumph Motorcycles very Successfully..It Doesn't Change the Fact that its Just a Brand Name, Stamp or Badge that has No other Relevance to the Original Company or Makers..That's All that was getting Discussed & Clarified on this Thread..:p

Folks that are have an Interest in Owning an Original Wade & Butchers will Continue to do So just the same as I Spent Most of my Life Riding Original Triumph Motorcycles..:D

Billy
 
All good, all good :) As said originally, I myself appreciate and have grappled with this fundamental 'issue' of reviving a brand. And I've come to the conclusion that nothing can ever be like it was, even in your suggested continuous production hypothetical you speak of - it would itself just be a modern 'version' of the brand, as I believe my venture can also only be accurately described as.

A brand like Moynat, among many others in the fashion world, was recently 'revived' and to much success, albeit on a magnificent scale. And also by a party that has no 'real' connection to the origins that made the brand what it is.. But the take away is that it's all rightfully done, and so coupled with quality output, the brand is allowed to continue forward - and with happy consumers (New and existing).

Ultimately I feel that true quality and craftsmanship cannot be ignored.

I stand by this:
  • The original W&B company is still alive (an amazing thing in itself that personally inspires me).
  • The brand is strong and evocative of quality and tradition, both of which motivate the maker in me.
  • I am adamant to only do the brand complete justice through what I produce.
At the end of the day my hope is that folks will get excited and make this a reality with me, and in so doing it only adds positively to the wet-shaving world, it does nothing to take away from or harm it.


Thanks so much guys,
- Mike
 
One question is going through my sleppy head while I read this. Why I would need new W&B razor, there is still plenty of original on sale every day and they will be certainly less expensive then this new one.
I'm asking myself as W&B lover why I would go all this trouble to revive one of my favorites brands and really cant find any valid response.

Of to sleep now.
 
One question is going through my sleppy head while I read this. Why I would need new W&B razor, there is still plenty of original on sale every day and they will be certainly less expensive then this new one.
I'm asking myself as W&B lover why I would go all this trouble to revive one of my favorites brands and really cant find any valid response.

Of to sleep now.

Hi RSSO,

Well, 'different strokes...' I suppose is the idiom that applies here.

Dovo and Thiers Issard collectively have sent out plenty of razors to the world, they should stop now right? :) same for custom makers - folks have either got their razors already, or should buy vintage ones off of ebay, no one wants a newly made straight razor (a better crafted one) - correct?

No one needs a new razor (of any make), but there is a desirability - a want, that exists, for any well crafted 'luxury' good.
The reasons for reviving this brand, and indeed for any brand that continues to move forward are the same: to improve, to evolve, to offer more, to diversify their products etc.

Ultimately some will want to purchase new Wade & Butcher goods (and all that this can offer), while others will always prefer to only collect and use vintage W&B goods.

It's all good and fun, and the straight razor wins :)

- Mike
 
Darkbulb, to further respond to this part of your post, as indeed it is an interesting debate, I would ask:



Hi Mike,

What if W&B never sold the company and it continued to this day... however, through time they; changed staff throughout all departments (new individuals hired), They changed location, opened a smaller workshop in commonwealth RSA, updated their manufacturing processes and employed the use of new tools and machinery, introduced new (better) materials despite their different place of origin,

and finally, and as a result of those changes, they produced razors of equal or exceedingly better quality than the company ever did in it's past.

Would you purchase a razor from that Wade & Butcher with pride? Dare I say I think you would :)

- Mike


Nice to read some of the things you intend bringing to the table while trying to produce an honest sympathetic homage to a truly world famous marquee razor brand, I'm sure If you do produce razors with all these things you say you will be onto a winner, I've owned and honed every custom razor on the market and personally not mentioning any names there are many that fall well below my standards in quality and workmanship and quite frankly left me pretty disapointed, in fact I still own two custom razors which are keepers by Cedric Christ and Michael Waterhouse I also have a nice collection of high end NOS vintage Japanese razors, I hope you produce at least one model FBU 8/8 with the famous deep Wade & Butcher etching I think I could be up for owning such a razor, I know our own very talented Michael Waterhouse when asked produced me a beautiful flawless looking razor along these lines which so happens to be a Custom 8/8 smiler FBU in fact I used the razor today.

Regards

Jamie AKA Celticrusader from the SRP.

 
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Michael, I'm the one that mentioned knife makers - that was not meant to be derogatory, only that there are great similarities in knife and razor making. The fact that in a few years on SRP I've not come across a SA custom razor maker is what led me to assume you would be using local knife makers. Your post on SRP makes no mention that you are a razor maker, hence my assumption that everything would be contracted out. Hope that clears up my post, nothing bad intended and as I said on SRP I hope your venture goes well.
 
If this comes off, and the quality is as good as or better than the originals (verified by the vast collective experience of this and the other forums) I'll bite the bullet and probably buy an up to date version of one of those iconic razors.

I know Timefactors have done ok with the "Smiths" relaunch, so it can be done. Of course, Timefactors were already well established makers of very fine timepieces so they already had a head start.

I presume the 2 other artisans and you have a researchable and verifiable track record of producing quality razors?


If you're asking, do I have a track record of producing quality custom razors, then the answer is a simple no. But of course, all great things must have their start, their point of departure, and for me it will be the revival of W&B. We do have a series of prototypes sitting on the workbench at present, as well as some custom-designed machinery in the works to ensure we produce razors in line with our design/quality aspirations. I'm also a straight razor user/collector for the past 10 years, and have been actively planning to establish my own custom razors for years now through diligent research and development. I am also a Designer by profession, so I'm all about the details as a matter of day-to-day work, additionally I am the owner of Zulu Grey natural hones, so from operating a small, quality wet-shaving oriented company and product I have a track record there for sure.

I'm confident - more than confident - that when we release our new Wade & Butcher razors, interested folks will be rewarded with true quality beyond their expectations, under a brand they love and cherish as we do.

As a matter of interest, if I were to list the current custom straight razor makers that I feel are producing exceptional work:
  1. Michael Waterhouse, (Fantastic restraint on design, and wonderful execution to create simply quality straight razors.)
  2. Max Sprecher, (Great attention to detail on majority of razors, with lovely fit and finish.)
  3. Cedric Christ, (Ali's Blades have an overall quality in design and crafting that should be applauded, I really like what he produces).

Cheers guys, great discussion here.
- Mike
 
Read all this with interest-
Surely though the finished product should tell us how good the quality is, and that is the only way to judge it.

We are in an era of global marketing -

Jaguar cars- owned by Tata in India, don't see many complaints about their designs, along with Land-rover (also owned by Tata)

Rolls Royce cars- owned by BMW and their current models are gobsmackingly gorgeous (imho)

Bentley cars- owned by VW (who must be wondering what happened when they bid for RR ;)) )

Winchester Rifles and Shotguns- owned and made by Browning in Belgium and Japan.

Smith and Wesson- were once owned by a british company until recently- not sure who owns them now, but so what?

Most Nissan, Toyota and Honda cars that we buy in this country are not strictly Japanese cars but built in this country.

Can you see what I'm saying?
Judge a product by its quality and not its name. Mike has got an agreement from the current owners of the brand to make and market razors under the W&B name. Doing this he has put his neck on the block BUT if the quality is that of the original W&B is up to standard then great- crack on!
 
Been following this thread with interest, it is exciting for me to hear that the great W&B name will make a come back in this modern day and age, but at the same time a bit apprehensive, my father used to see his father shaving with a straight, I saw my father shave with a Gillette Tech and my sons saw me shaving with a cartridge razor, now I've gone back to straight razor, and I kick myself for not taking it up years ago, that is why I feel excited, could this be the start of other great names to follow, being apprehensive is natural of what the outcome will be, but a sword is only sharp as the shoulder of the man who wields it.
 
Would I mind if tomorrow British Shipbuilders attempted the start of a revival with a first venture in (say) India? No. It could well be that in 20-30 years from now the cream of shipbuilding is back to the industrial European (or British, if you prefer) north.

Right. At least SA (and India) are part of the Commonwealth...
 
And Tata bought both from Ford, if my memory serves me right.
The analogy doesn't quite work - foreign ownership by either Ford or TATA is not the point - JLR vehicles have been continuously produced in the same places and by the same people regardless of ownership. In fact they will be assembled in other countries including China in order to meet demand.

A better analogy (to my mind because it's one I used on SRP) is the case of Rover which ceased production in the UK having sold what remained of it's value to China. Given that cars are ever evolving in terms of technology, if in 50 year's time, the Chinese owners started using the Rover marque on all electric, driver-less technology cars, would there be any connection to the Rovers built in the UK? I say no - the link was broken and, therefore they are just making a car that is called 'Rover'.

Analogies with cars are pointless in reality because of technology - a straight razor can only be developed so far - it must still be recognisably a razor with a spine, edge, tang, tail and scales. The metal may be more advanced but it will still be ground, polished and honed in much the same way that they always have been - that doesn't mean that there is a link from Micheal's plan to the past.

One final point about Wade & Butcher - it's an iconic name now - probably due more to the size and ruggedness of design. The quality was never any better than handfuls of other makes - and considerably lower than the premium makers.
 
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