Uncle Jon's Now in UK

pjgh, recently I had an extended personal conversation with a shaving soap maker who is easily in the "Top Tier" of makers in the World. His soaps are always in damn near every "Top Five" list and usually first. I learned more in approx. 30 mins. than a few years on the Internet. :eek:

He stated that the old days are gone whereas huge conglomerates made hard triple milled soaps and he could not name one being made today, although he was not totally familiar with some niche Euro soaps. He did clarify for me that Tabac and Fine are not made by the same factory which I had believed! He explained the process, but it was a tad complex. :oops: He explained to me that the costs for eqpmt. to do old time triple milling right were exorbitant, circa 1/4 of a million minimum. :eek: I offered to send him a NOS Colgate Barber puck, but he said it didn't matter as he didn't possess said eqpmt. to replicate it and that basically those days are gone. :(

As I gave my word that I wouldn't reveal his identity I shall maintain that. However, I did ask him that out of all the artisan soaps made today whose would he recommend (excepting his brand of course). He said the Wholly Kaw with the donkey milk unequivocally and without hesitation. YMMV.

The best bet IMO to get a production old school triple milled shaving soap would be for a Central American or Dominican soap maker to make a run as they use old time eqpmt. still. However, the market just isn't there for them to make any money doing that. They would probably sell a few hundred and the rest would languish as many Western wet shavers chased the "shiny ball" of this month's new artisan soap. Just my 2 cents.
 
Bogeyman said:
pjgh, recently I had an extended personal conversation with a shaving soap maker who is easily in the "Top Tier" of makers in the World. His soaps are always in damn near every "Top Five" list and usually first. I learned more in approx. 30 mins. than a few years on the Internet. :eek:

He stated that the old days are gone whereas huge conglomerates made hard triple milled soaps and he could not name one being made today, although he was not totally familiar with some niche Euro soaps. He did clarify for me that Tabac and Fine are not made by the same factory which I had believed! He explained the process, but it was a tad complex. :oops: He explained to me that the costs for eqpmt. to do old time triple milling right were exorbitant, circa 1/4 of a million minimum. :eek: I offered to send him a NOS Colgate Barber puck, but he said it didn't matter as he didn't possess said eqpmt. to replicate it and that basically those days are gone. :(

As I gave my word that I wouldn't reveal his identity I shall maintain that. However, I did ask him that out of all the artisan soaps made today whose would he recommend (excepting his brand of course). He said the Wholly Kaw with the donkey milk unequivocally and without hesitation. YMMV.

The best bet IMO to get a production old school triple milled shaving soap would be for a Central American or Dominican soap maker to make a run as they use old time eqpmt. still. However, the market just isn't there for them to make any money doing that. They would probably sell a few hundred and the rest would languish as many Western wet shavers chased the "shiny ball" of this month's new artisan soap. Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...
Which huge conglomerates made triple-milled soaps and 'til when?
'Couldn't name a triple-milled soap being made today.' D R Harris still make them - are they niche Euro?
 
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pjgh said:
The problem is, it sits in the upper epidermis giving only the apparency of well-fed skin, after which it causes issues. For folks that simply eat right, our skin is well conditioned already and in no way needing of this sort of thing. As it happens, I tend to err on the side of heavily alcoholic aftershaves to try to dry out after shaving. Thankfully, the classics stay as classics and vintage is still available.

I do hope it's a trend and as such, something that can be influenced. Really? Do we need it? Perhaps Dr Jon can give us a "straight-up" version of his soap, aimed at fellows who like to shave, splash and feel great. It'd save us from overpriced French soap, that's for certain.

WSP had a great soap which I thoroughly enjoyed as samples from Jim at Shave Dash, so much so I bought full sized tubs to find this insidious ingredient had crept in without mention in ingredients lists or pictures on any website, including WSP. I complained via a comment box and got weeks of spam as my reward.

Le Pere Lucien had a great soap. He now puts shea butter in and the brand is quite simply lost to me.

I've told @Fox at Wickham's that if does this I will get in my car, drive down there and punch him in the cock.

Right! Let the free market preside ...
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Paul has a valid point, shea butter contains un-saponables, elements that don't turn to soap. Most soap makers know this and use it to boost the post shave skin conditioning properties.

However what most soap makers don't know is how to use it in controlled amounts so that as Paul points out, the soap is not over saturated in conditioning properties.

This is where I disagree with Paul and my fear of the eye watering punch he will deliver if I get this wrong has led me to grasp a better understanding of shea butter. Thanks Paul. ;)

The main question is can you label all soaps with Shea butter in, as being over saturated in conditioning properties. No, not all soap is soap. As @wayne mattison knows, not all music is music. ;) Some soap makers who know their ingredients will realise this and carefully calculate the amount of Shea to use. It is written by the most seasoned soap makers on their blogs and soap making forums, that a starting point is generally 10%

Some shaving soap makers fail to realise that these forum/blog soap makers make bath soaps, bath bombs and not shaving soaps. 10% is a crazy amount... unless again you know your ingredients. Like soap is not like all soap, Shea butter is not like all Shea butter! "Uh, he's gone Charlie Sheen on us I hear you say".

No, not at all, Shea butter comes in many flavours, generally the more refined, the less un-saponables there will be. So it is possible to have 10% super refined Shea butter in a shave soap and you would not know it was there by the post shave conditioning qualities.

Shea butter properties.

Lightly Refined
Colour: Cream to pale yellow
Refining Process: Naturally filtered through diatomaceous earth to remove impurities and remove most of the natural scent.
Non Saponables: 5 -7%
Uses: Cosmetic and Soap Manufacturing.

Unrefined Filtered (RAW)
Colour: Tan to light yellow
Filtering Process: Naturally filtered through UN-BLEACHED cloth to remove visible impurities. Medium to strong nutty/smoky scent.
Non Saponables: 7 - 12%
Uses: Cosmetic and Soap Manufacturing for none scented products. This is the traditional stuff with a very distinctive smell.

Unrefined Unfiltered (Raw)
Colour: light yellow to dark tan
Filtering Process: None. Medium to strong nutty/smoky scent. All the impurities that were present in acquisition and processing of the nuts are present.
Non Saponables: 7 - 12%
Uses: This product is as close to the Shea tree as is possible without visiting African personally. This is the traditional stuff with a very distinctive smell.

Occasionally you will find a raw butter that is gold or bright gold in colour. This butter has been extended or "enhanced" with Palm Oil, local herbs and sometimes stretched with water, thus reducing its effectiveness and bringing into question, its purity. It is typically found with vendors that do not have the resources for testing/certifying or commitment to the long term viability of Shea Butter.

Super or Ultra Refined
Colour: White
Refining Process: Machine filtered to remove impurities and standardize color and extreme-heated to remove all odor.
Non Saponables: 1 - 2%
Uses: Cosmetic and Soap Manufacturing. Cooking and chocolate industry.

Bottom line is, and you should do this with every soap really. Always try to obtain samples of a soap before committing to a huge tub, ask friends if they have a sample they can share. Jim over at shavedash.com offers many samples at reasonable prices and provides an outstanding service. Maybe a group buy on a tin and divide it up would also be another good way to test a soap before buying a large tub.

Remember happy shaving!

@pjgh no need to drive down, the house is circled in boxes of shea butter and I wear it around my neck like garlic. Lol o_O
 
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Fox said:
Paul has a valid point, shea butter contains un-saponables, elements that don't turn to soap. Most soap makers know this and use it to boost the post shave skin conditioning properties.

However what most soap makers don't know is how to use it in controlled amounts so that as Paul points out, the soap is not over saturated in conditioning properties.

This is where I disagree with Paul and my fear of the eye watering punch he will deliver if I get this wrong has led me to grasp a better understanding of shea butter. Thanks Paul. ;)

The main question is can you label all soaps with Shea butter in, as being over saturated in conditioning properties. No, not all soap is soap. As @wayne mattison knows, not all music is music. ;) Some soap makers who know their ingredients will realise this and carefully calculate the amount of Shea to use. It is written by the most seasoned soap makers on their blogs and soap making forums, that a starting point is generally 10%

Some shaving soap makers fail to realise that these forum/blog soap makers make bath soaps, bath bombs and not shaving soaps. 10% is a crazy amount... unless again you know your ingredients. Like soap is not like all soap, Shea butter is not like all Shea butter! "Uh, he's gone Charlie Sheen on us I hear you say".

No, not at all, Shea butter comes in many flavours, generally the more refined, the less un-saponables there will be. So it is possible to have 10% super refined Shea butter in a shave soap and you would not know it was there by the post shave conditioning qualities.

Shea butter properties.

Lightly Refined
Colour: Cream to pale yellow
Refining Process: Naturally filtered through diatomaceous earth to remove impurities and remove most of the natural scent.
Non Saponables: 5 -7%
Uses: Cosmetic and Soap Manufacturing.

Unrefined Filtered (RAW)
Colour: Tan to light yellow
Filtering Process: Naturally filtered through UN-BLEACHED cloth to remove visible impurities. Medium to strong nutty/smoky scent.
Non Saponables: 7 - 12%
Uses: Cosmetic and Soap Manufacturing for none scented products. This is the traditional stuff with a very distinctive smell.

Unrefined Unfiltered (Raw)
Colour: light yellow to dark tan
Filtering Process: None. Medium to strong nutty/smoky scent. All the impurities that were present in acquisition and processing of the nuts are present.
Non Saponables: 7 - 12%
Uses: This product is as close to the Shea tree as is possible without visiting African personally. This is the traditional stuff with a very distinctive smell.

Occasionally you will find a raw butter that is gold or bright gold in colour. This butter has been extended or "enhanced" with Palm Oil, local herbs and sometimes stretched with water, thus reducing its effectiveness and bringing into question, its purity. It is typically found with vendors that do not have the resources for testing/certifying or commitment to the long term viability of Shea Butter.

Super or Ultra Refined
Colour: White
Refining Process: Machine filtered to remove impurities and standardize color and extreme-heated to remove all odor.
Non Saponables: 1 - 2%
Uses: Cosmetic and Soap Manufacturing. Cooking and chocolate industry.

Bottom line is, and you should do this with every soap really. Always try to obtain samples of a soap before committing to a huge tub, ask friends if they have a sample they can share. Jim over at shavedash.com offers many samples at reasonable prices and provides an outstanding service. Maybe a group buy on a tin and divide it up would also be another good way to test a soap before buying a large tub.

Remember happy shaving!

@pjgh no need to drive down, the house is circled in boxes of shea butter and I wear it around my neck like garlic. Lol o_O
Click to expand...

Everything you always wanted to know about Shea Butter (but were afraid to ask)
 
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