Plissoft brush-I don't get it

[Obelix]

Ok guys, this is strange... When i got my first Yaqi plissoft, i was surprised at how soft the tips are and that there is no springiness, which for me is the most annoying thing with the S-brush, the only synthetic i had until now.

However, last night, i made a test latherup with my plissoft and i am confused... This is the knot. Despite what Yaqi declares, it's a 23x50mm and has a 1 cm glue blob at the base.

Now here's the weird part that i can't understand. It's hard to splay! How can something with so soft fibers be so hard to splay... What happens is that if you press it on your cheek, it feels as if there is a sort of "compact column of fibers" at the center of the knot (at the peak of the bulb) that stays together and tries to bend but doesn't really manage to and the result is that instead of a splay, you have a brush that tries to "dance its way away from you". It's the only way i can describe it.

I also tried to splay it on my chin and then move it up towards the cheek, which is a method that works with the S-brush, but this doesn't work so well with this plissoft, because there is always this resistant center column, that with the slightest reduction of pressure, makes the brush bounce up again and lose the splay.

This kind of splay, is even more unnatural that the S-brush splay (and that's one unnatural splay already!). I don't know if i am doing it wrong, but there are i think 3 possibilities:

1) That's how plissofts are.
2) The problem is that this particular plissoft has too short of a loft.
3) I am not using the brush right.

Which one of the 3???

As things are, this brush has "earned" the title of "travel brush" from my S-brush. And by "travel" i nominate my worst items that i don't mind losing.

 

[Rufus]

I had a Simpson Classic 1 synthetic that was like that. I attributed it to too short a loft. I've removed the knot from the handle and will soon install a Muhle Silvertp Fiber V2 knot with a taller loft. What are the loft and diameter of your knot?

 

[Obelix]

I had a Simpson Classic 1 synthetic that was like that. I attributed it to too short a loft. I've removed the knot from the handle and will soon install a Muhle Silvertp Fiber V2 knot with a taller loft. What are the loft and diameter of your knot?

Thank you for the reply! I have been fruitlessly googling for answers and so far i find only praise for plissoft...

The knot is a 23mm and the loft is 50mm. But, the base of the knot has a 1cm high glue bump. So the effective free loft is 40mm.

 

[Norfolkdick]

Greetings
Whilst I have no personal knowledge of the brush in question I do own quite a few latest generation synthetics and I would make the following observations:-

Whilst the tips may be super soft the actual shaft of each fibre is stiffer than most if not all natural hair brushes so in order to get a reasonable amount of flex into a synthetic knot the loft does need to be taller than a natural knot.

Natural hairs individual hairs do absorb water to a greater or lesser extent thus they become more pliable after a soaking whereas synthetic fibres are waterproof so remain just about the same wet or dry.

Taking the glue bump into account as you rightly say the effective loft is IMHO as short as hell!

Plissoft type knots vary a great deal from one supplier to the another, some knots have thinner individual fibres than others and these sorts splay much easier, also some are denser than others and more dense knots are stiffer.

Taking into account all of these points your brush is (IMHO) a stubby stiff little bugger because the loft is too short for the diameter and type of fibre, in fact I would suggest that it is too short for any type of synthetic fibre and arguably too short even if it was a badger.

Regards
Dick.

 

[Obelix]

Greetings
Whilst I have no personal knowledge of the brush in question I do own quite a few latest generation synthetics and I would make the following observations:-

Whilst the tips may be super soft the actual shaft of each fibre is stiffer than most if not all natural hair brushes so in order to get a reasonable amount of flex into a synthetic knot the loft does need to be taller than a natural knot.

Natural hairs individual hairs do absorb water to a greater or lesser extent thus they become more pliable after a soaking whereas synthetic fibres are waterproof so remain just about the same wet or dry.

Taking the glue bump into account as you rightly say the effective loft is IMHO as short as hell!

Plissoft type knots vary a great deal from one supplier to the another, some knots have thinner individual fibres than others and these sorts splay much easier, also some are denser than others and more dense knots are stiffer.

Taking into account all of these points your brush is (IMHO) a stubby stiff little bugger because the loft is too short for the diameter and type of fibre, in fact I would suggest that it is too short for any type of synthetic fibre and arguably too short even if it was a badger.

Regards
Dick.

Thank you very much for the explanation. Now it makes all perfect sense. I left a message at the Yaqi's sales representative about this, suggesting that the brush should be manufactured without glue bump or with minimal glue bump. Haven't heard back from him, but who knows, maybe they will take it under consideration and change it for future brushes.

Like i said, i will keep it as travel brush only at this point. I mean, even my S-brush 10005 behaves better when all is said and done. Shame, but i have 2 tuxedos on their way. Maybe i will be luckier with them.

 

[Rufus]

Norfolkdick summed it up very well. I should have mentioned that the knot of my Simpson Classic 1 synthetic measures 22 mm X 41 mm, which is similar to your knot taking into account the glue bump. I found this brush totally unusable. On the other hand, the knot of my other synthetic, a Muhle, measures 21 mm X 52 mm, which makes for a much more pleasant and effective lathering experience. I must say, however, that notwithstanding the performance of my Muhle synthetic, I am not a convert to synthetic knots. I use my Muhle just for travel as it dries very quickly and works well enough. I'll take my badgers (of all grades including pure) and boars over a synthetic any day. The only natural hair that I prefer my Muhle synthetic to is horse hair.

 

[Obelix]

Norfolkdick summed it up very well. I should have mentioned that the knot of my Simpson Classic 1 synthetic measures 22 mm X 41 mm, which is similar to your knot taking into account the glue bump. I found this brush totally unusable. On the other hand, the knot of my other synthetic, a Muhle, measures 21 mm X 52 mm, which makes for a much more pleasant and effective lathering experience. I must say, however, that notwithstanding the performance of my Muhle synthetic, I am not a convert to synthetic knots. I use my Muhle just for travel as it dries very quickly and works well enough. I'll take my badgers (of all grades including pure) and boars over a synthetic any day. The only natural hair that I prefer my Muhle synthetic to is horse hair.

I see. I think this brush i got, is only usable with painting motion and splaying only on the chin. Splaying anywhere else, is impossible.

I am still reserving judgement on synthetics vs natural hair until i get the tuxedos, hopefully without huge glue bump, but i think my main problem with synthetics, might be face feel. I mean, they feel like "plastic". Very soft, but plastic. We 'll see... If i didn't have this problem with the short loft, i think would have no problem with plissoft. I could use it just fine. But i have doubts about the "plastic feel". Still, i can't be certain, because the way this loft is made, it's like fighting with the brush each time i place it on my face, so i can't have a clear judgement.

I may order one or two more real badgers from Yaqi at the end. Just to have them as spares, since they 're cheap and seem to have backbone. The one i got seems much better than the EJ best badger i have. Tomorrow i will use it for first time...

 

[Hogwash]

Was going to make a thread about synthetics and springiness. My last purchase was a Kent Infinity and I find it hard to splay on the face for lathering. The knot stays together at the point like a painter's brush when twisted between fingertips. Not entirely short loft either at 52mm.

Is this just a characteristic of synthetics? Do they have a break in at all?

 

[SeanC]

Greetings
Whilst I have no personal knowledge of the brush in question I do own quite a few latest generation synthetics and I would make the following observations:-

Whilst the tips may be super soft the actual shaft of each fibre is stiffer than most if not all natural hair brushes so in order to get a reasonable amount of flex into a synthetic knot the loft does need to be taller than a natural knot.

Natural hairs individual hairs do absorb water to a greater or lesser extent thus they become more pliable after a soaking whereas synthetic fibres are waterproof so remain just about the same wet or dry.

Taking the glue bump into account as you rightly say the effective loft is IMHO as short as hell!

Plissoft type knots vary a great deal from one supplier to the another, some knots have thinner individual fibres than others and these sorts splay much easier, also some are denser than others and more dense knots are stiffer.

Taking into account all of these points your brush is (IMHO) a stubby stiff little bugger because the loft is too short for the diameter and type of fibre, in fact I would suggest that it is too short for any type of synthetic fibre and arguably too short even if it was a badger.

Regards
Dick.

I think you've hit the nail on the head - glue bump

I purposely veered away from purchasing a 50mm loft YaQi synthetic for that very reason. I would recommend going for a 55mm or more

I have a Maggard Plissoft which exhibits none of these unwelcome characteristics and does indeed splay very easily. The glue bump is small

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

 

[SeanC]

Was going to make a thread about synthetics and springiness. My last purchase was a Kent Infinity and I find it hard to splay on the face for lathering. The knot stays together at the point like a painter's brush when twisted between fingertips. Not entirely short loft either at 52mm.

Is this just a characteristic of synthetics? Do they have a break in at all?

I think the Kent Infinity uses older generation fibres, hence the unnatural behaviour

I and others have noticed that the Razorock 400 Black Fibre does indeed break in and soften, but I wouldn't say it's common with synthetics

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

 

[Obelix]

The good news is, that the Yaqi representative replied to me and it is a known problem with earlier production batches. Since i also told him that i will make a 3rd order, he told me that when i decide to do it, they will send me an extra brush as gift.

 

[donnie_arko]

The good news is, that the Yaqi representative replied to me and it is a known problem with earlier production batches. Since i also told him that i will make a 3rd order, he told me that when i decide to do it, they will send me an extra brush as gift.

I bought the same brush for my dad, I will try it out to see if it has the same issues for splay.

 

[Obelix]

I bought the same brush for my dad, I will try it out to see if it has the same issues for splay.

Good, it will be interesting to see if this is just happening with some brushes or it is universal problem. With mine, you can feel the glue bump with your fingers, if you press at the base of the knot. That's how i measured it. It's like it has a cement wall at the base of the knot.

BTW, the representative, told me that the newer batches that have this problem solved, are the Sagrada, the Ferrari and the Mysterious Space brushes.

 

[Norfolkdick]

Greetings
That's good news from Yaqi they obviously are getting western sales savvy and know a good PR opportunity when one arises.

My first foray into synthetic brushes was the Frank Shaving 28mm Pur-Tech and for me that brush was a joke. It had a silly short loft and the knot was super dense, absolutely jam packed solid with fibre; the result was the brush had near enough zero flex it was as stiff as a poker and I found it (like Rufus's Simpson) unusable. It would have made an ideal stencil brush for stencilling the shipping address on wooden packing cases......do they still do that?

Regards
Dick.

 

[donnie_arko]

Good, it will be interesting to see if this is just happening with some brushes or it is universal problem. With mine, you can feel the glue bump with your fingers, if you press at the base of the knot. That's how i measured it. It's like it has a cement wall at the base of the knot.

BTW, the representative, told me that the newer batches that have this problem solved, are the Sagrada, the Ferrari and the Mysterious Space brushes.

The glue bump of 22mm/52mm Yaqi Plissoft is rock solid at the base of the brush like it is with my larger 24mm/57mm Yaqi Plissoft, in comparison the glue bump of my 24mm Omega S Brush doesn't as significant a glue bump feel at the base of the brush - which does not want to splay at all, just springs off.

I did a quick trial lather with the 22mm/52mm Yaqi Plissoft and had no problem getting the brush to splay which was the same for the 24mm/57mm Yaqi Plissoft for today's shave.

I'll use the smaller brush for tomorrow's shave and report back whether I have any problems with it.

 

[Obelix]

The glue bump of 22mm/52mm Yaqi Plissoft is rock solid at the base of the brush like it is with my larger 24mm/57mm Yaqi Plissoft, in comparison the glue bump of my 24mm Omega S Brush doesn't as significant a glue bump feel at the base of the brush - which does not want to splay at all, just springs off.

I did a quick trial lather with the 22mm/52mm Yaqi Plissoft and had no problem getting the brush to splay which was the same for the 24mm/57mm Yaqi Plissoft for today's shave.

I'll use the smaller brush for tomorrow's shave and report back whether I have any problems with it.

Thank you! This shows that only some brushes are affected! How high is the glue bump in your brush?